To home or not to home; that is the question.

I’ve run into a problem.

I have a potential new owner for Bella, who I think would be good for her. He’s a single guy, 10 year old son, farms and runs his own business in the big city, lives with Mom and Dad (well he’s not a marriage prospect hah!). His old Golden Retriever dog passed away last winter at the age of 17 and I creeped him on facebook and found pictures of her standing of a skunk and running around the yard, rolling, being near the family, so old her face was all white.

I’ve had Bella with me for the past 3 days at work – she’s everywhere I go. She’s social, loves people and I’m falling for her. I get her home however, and she’s right after the chickens, but this is absolutely killing me now. I can’t help but think I’m just giving up on her, trying to take the easy way out.

I’m not looking for judgement, I’m looking for in-my-shoes opinions; if you were in this position, if this was your situation, what do you think would you do? Would you buy her a kennel run to be in when she’s unmonitored outside? Install fencing for the chickens? Get rid of her? Tie a dead chicken to her leash and attach it to her for 24-48 hours (read it online)?

Thanks for your input.

What do you think would give Bella HER best quality of life?

Schipperkesue wrote:What do you think would give Bella HER best quality of life?

It's not knowing what happens after the fact -- It's not knowing how that person ACTUALLY treats her, what they do with her, if the kid hits her with sticks, do they feed her well or too much. It's never again knowing anything about her. This is how hoarders get themselves in the situations usually. They know they shouldn't have 30 cats, but they worry that no one else will love them as much.

That you will never have control of. You can just meet the people, talk to them and go on your best instincts. I have raised litters of Schipperke puppies since 1990 and every time I send away a dog it is the chance you take that the dog may not be cared for it to your standards. The best you can do is stay in touch and offer support if needed.

When our LGD was young he took a chicken but never did it since. This spring when I let them free range it seemed I had a balanced system where they all looked after eachother. When i was working the dog would shoo off the sheep, then the sheep would shoo off the chickens and the chickens would shoo off the cats or whoever was about to get in my way, however it happened they all took their turn. Ill never forget waking up late, walking out the door only to be greeted by dogs, cats, chickens and sheep all waiting for me to get going with the feed. It all came unravelled when my parents brought in ANOTHER ruined LGD pup, human bonded. I did my best to work with him but the two dogs fed off each others excitement and it turned into chase and chew games. They both lost their freedom till we could decide what to do with them. We found an appropriate home for the pup and since then Ive observed the older dog just lay there while the hens peck around him, not too cose though, and if he thinks they are out of their bounds he will shoo them into place. Personally I wont have a dog that I cant trust around my livestock, defeats the purpose of having livestock, they become deadstock and the dog becomes fertilizer but thats my way of things. In two years my death toll is 2 dead chickens, 1 dead pheasant which resulted in 1 less feral cat...my barn cats wont even go near anything chickenlike!!

It is always a hard Question to ask one self
I would let the person take her and also state that you would like to do visits so you could still see her.
If he is a real dog lover he should not have problems with that as long as you let him know first
I had a wonderful dog that was great with the Poultry when I was watching he would even just lay there as they flitted around him and stole food out of his dish. But one day the phone rang and had to go in to answer as it was charging and came right back outside and there was 5 dead chickens
and him laying in the bunch.
He found a wonderful home with people that have cattle and no poultry and last I heard he is still doing fine except getting old.
Guess what I am trying to say is You cant watch them every minute of the day as one time no matter how good they are being the phone might ring

Sweetened wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:What do you think would give Bella HER best quality of life?

It's not knowing what happens after the fact -- It's not knowing how that person ACTUALLY treats her, what they do with her, if the kid hits her with sticks, do they feed her well or too much. It's never again knowing anything about her. This is how hoarders get themselves in the situations usually. They know they shouldn't have 30 cats, but they worry that no one else will love them as much.

Boy do I KNOW how you feel. I go through this every time I sell or rehome a bird. Yes, I have had someone tell me they have lost a bird within days of them getting it because they didn't bother to secure their coop from predators and then ask me to sell them another [I refused.] I also know of people who still have the birds I had sold them several years ago. You can do all the background checks possible but you will never know 100% if the new forever home will love and care for that animal as well as you can.

As for the pooch. My last dog was a Boarder Collie. I never fully trusted her around chickens. WHenever I would take her around the coops, she would always hover, ready to herd. However, she would always be ready to snap at them. It's what made me uncomfortable leaving her unmonitored with them. I made sure my birds were cooped and never left her unattended with a loose bird. She lived to be 18 and the funny thing was in her last months her companion was my pet chicken Buffy.

I am not a dog person or a trainer so I am just going to say what I would try to do if it were me.
If you want to keep your dog and the birds are the only issue, I would coop either the dog or the birds when you are not around. I'm going to guess your dog knows basic obidence? I would take the dog on a leash and go amongst the birds. Have the dog lay amongst them and if she/he tries to rush or grab at a bird, correct the behaviour. You could even try kennelling the dog amongst them so it learns it is to protect them. I would do this daily over a few weeks until I am confident the dog is learning its new behaviour as bird protector.

If that doesn't work, then I would look at finding a new home for the dog. I also wouldn't feel bad then because I know I tried.

toybarons wrote:You could even try kennelling the dog amongst them so it learns it is to protect them. I would do this daily over a few weeks until I am confident the dog is learning its new behaviour as bird protector.

I like this idea, I may try it.

Sweetened wrote:I’ve run into a problem.

I have a potential new owner for Bella, who I think would be good for her. He’s a single guy, 10 year old son, farms and runs his own business in the big city, lives with Mom and Dad (well he’s not a marriage prospect hah!). His old Golden Retriever dog passed away last winter at the age of 17 and I creeped him on facebook and found pictures of her standing of a skunk and running around the yard, rolling, being near the family, so old her face was all white.

I’ve had Bella with me for the past 3 days at work – she’s everywhere I go. She’s social, loves people and I’m falling for her. I get her home however, and she’s right after the chickens, but this is absolutely killing me now. I can’t help but think I’m just giving up on her, trying to take the easy way out.

I’m not looking for judgement, I’m looking for in-my-shoes opinions; if you were in this position, if this was your situation, what do you think would you do? Would you buy her a kennel run to be in when she’s unmonitored outside? Install fencing for the chickens? Get rid of her? Tie a dead chicken to her leash and attach it to her for 24-48 hours (read it online)?

Thanks for your input.

This man and his son had a committment to their last dog for 17 years, I think that is a pretty good resume. They kept the dog through thick and thin until its passing. Not everyone does that these days. I think even that they posted pictures of the dog on facebook shows it was an important part of their family. Sounds to me that that dog had a pretty good life.

I think finding the right dog is sometimes like finding the right mate. Sometimes it takes some time to find the perfect fit. It doesn't mean anything is wrong with the person or dog as the case may be, just that it is not quite right. If she is not the perfect fit for you maybe you keeping her stops her from finding her perfect fit, which very well could be this man and his son.

I wouldn't look at it as giving up on her, more like giving her a chance to have a great life somewhere that suits her better.

We have found homes for dogs that haven't suited us (or we haven't suited them ) and been very happy to do it. I don't see it as a failure on my part, but feel good about recognising when things could be better for the dog somewhere else.

Your choice, your dog. Lots to think about, but don't miss out on a good family for her because you are beating yourself up.

coopslave wrote:
I think finding the right dog is sometimes like finding the right mate. Sometimes it takes some time to find the perfect fit. It doesn't mean anything is wrong with the person or dog as the case may be, just that it is not quite right. If she is not the perfect fit for you maybe you keeping her stops her from finding her perfect fit, which very well could be this man and his son.

I wouldn't look at it as giving up on her, more like giving her a chance to have a great life somewhere that suits her better.

We have found homes for dogs that haven't suited us (or we haven't suited them ) and been very happy to do it. I don't see it as a failure on my part, but feel good about recognising when things could be better for the dog somewhere else.

Thank you for this.

Sweetened, you have my sympathy. But I warn you, I am a hardliner on this subject. I feel that once I have taken on a dog, I am comitted and obligated and his life begins and ends with me. If I have a dog so intolerable that I do not want to keep him, I feel no one else is going to want my problem. At least I feed, groom and vet my problems. Other people tie them to a dog house or tree and forget about them. I will not put any dog, good or bad, into that situation.

But before I pull the plug I pull out all the stops in attempting to cure or resolve the problem. Lots of people take the approach of having the dog and chickens make 'friends'. This has NEVER been my dog/chicken philosophy. MY approach is to make the dog understand that the chickens are MINE he is not to touch what is MINE if he touches what is MINE the chicken gods will open wrath and condemnation on his head! I use the biggest scare tactic and negative reinforcement that I can find. My opinion, if you are liking this dog, then you have to be willing to SCARE HIM HALF TO DEATH. Otherwise, his prospects in life are going to take an uncertain turn. How kamakazee are you willng to get to keep this dog in your life, a life where YOU are in control of his care?

I have gone gonzoo crazy on dogs to try, oh dear lord try, and get them to figure out that they had to change something in order to live. "PLEEAASEE get this, Dog! Your life depends on it." But if after a year or more of relentless trying, if the dog was still a problem, I never passed them on. I put them down.

In your case I would be thinking, what if I give this dog to a new home and they love him. But don't confine him. And one day he wanders to a neighbour's and kills all the neighbour's chickens and the neighbour shoots him? Or the new owner ties the dog up and ignores him? Sweetened, I would rather a dog die cared for in my hands then possibly uncared for in someone else's. I have been where you are, I HATE it! But when I think, gee it's out of my hands, I tell myself, like hell it is! It is IN my hands and I will not wring my hands and release this (annoying) dog into the unknown. I will put on my big girl panties, attempt to cure him and if not, take care of the problem myself.

And tying a dead chicken to a dog? WHoever came up with that drek? That's like tying a box of Timbits around my neck and expecting me to be sorry. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! I like Timbits and dogs like dead chickens. Sheesh.

Good luck, you are not in an easy situation.

EDITED TO ADD...I see Coopslave's response appeared while I was typing. I have already offended Coopslave with my Costco rant and fear offending her again. I guess where Coopslave and I differ is in the severity and nature of the dog problem. If you keep working dogs (herding, hunting) and they are simply not talented or motivated in thier assigned job, but are otherwise fine and sane, then re-homing them is most definitely an option. Those are small glitches of a dog being just fine, but not suited to what the owner needed. Then there are psycho, insane dogs who have been so mentally damamged/traumatized that they are NEVER going to be normal and will require extreme management (not even reasonable management) for the rest of their lives. These dogs, which I have gotten from the SPCA were there because someone else didn't have the good sense and grit to end a life that was clearly NEVER going to make a good pet!!! THey ditched and ran.

Coopslaves' point is valid as long as the new home keeps no livestock and realizes your dog, if given the chance, will kill chickens, theirs or someone else's. Since this problem is one that dogs are routinely shot for....you've entered another level of problem beyond unsuitability. Some dogs CAN find new homes, and some problems have to end at home, I feel. That judgement call is very difficult.

Uno, you have to stop worrying about offending me. I am over it and like I say, not easily offended (usually ).

I agree with you from where you are coming from. We have also put dogs down that we did not think would be suitable for re homing. I think it is the right thing to do in some cases and is an option. I posted the other cause sometimes I think we beat ourselves up when we have a decent dog that we do not get along with. I think some of the dogs you talk about getting from the SPCA may have been good dogs in the wrong place and people kept them to long instead of finding them a new place right away. Hold on to a dog that doesn't suit them and they don't like and end up frustrated and then doing the wrong thing by it and changing the dog forever and giving it no chance at a better life. It is this sense of a life sentence that can cause some problems I think.

Anyways, Sweetened has a tough choice, but at least has options. Do what is best for you as well as the dog and then feel good about it whatever the decision is.

I agree with whats been said already. I see it daily in my job dogs and people who do not suit each other which eventually may in the end someone or something getting hurt and the end result not being so nice.

Every creature needs a job and a purpose and that needs to be discovered not forced.

I will tell you what we did with our dog which kinda follows what Uno said. I brought home a 6 months old black lab that got dumped at our clinic because the people did not want to pay their bill. She had been a "city" dog but the people had done nothing with her. I brought her home on christmas eve 2008. Boy of boy was the farm an exciting place for her especially the chickens. Being a bird dog I did not want to let her have a chance to make them a chase and kill game. SO thankfully we had a ton of snow that winter and at 6 months old she was underwight at 45lbs. First day she made a move to chase them I picked her up and pinned her to the ground and held her there until she got over it. Happened several times then it clicked with her that these were mine and I am protecting them. Just a verbal warning and she would back off. She was fine for months until the young birds were but out into general population. Apparently these new birds were fair game. So a few pins to the dirt and we were reastablised whos these were. She is now totally fine with all on farm animals and chases off the property any wild birds that try to land.

I would say you would have to use you judgement and maybe chicken guarding is not the job for her and she would be suited to another job. Its hard to let the control go but in the end it may be the best decision for both of you.