Does it Matter if Rare Heritage Breeds go Extinct ?

I am now heavily involved in our advertising campaign for the show and sale in Red Deer. Most of this is radio and newspaper interviews. I need some new material. I need everyone's opinion on why we are saving these breeds. Obviously these breeds are not popular or they wouldn't be on the critical list.

The first thing I think of is to look at it like a living gene bank. There may be genetics in these birds that we are not even aware of that could be useful in the future (feed conversion, disease resistance, etc). Things like grains, we can freeze away and pull them out every 30 years or so to keep them going. We just can't do that with livestock.

For example, markets today like a lot of breast meat. It's a good thing those cockfighters worked with their birds and developed the Cornish instead of just culling everything when cockfighting was outlawed in England.

I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

I couldn't agree more with you. I have very few friends that actually know whats in their food. They wonder why I do what I do and why I'm always talking about my animals. Preservation, way of life, quality..... its like talking to a wall sometime.

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This website has some statistics that I found surprising. It brings home the serious situation facing heritage breeds. It is not a question of 'what if they go extinct', but of how many will become extinct:

Within the past 15 years, 190 breeds of farm animals have gone extinct worldwide, and there are currently 1,500 others at risk of becoming extinct. In the past five years alone, 60 breeds of cattle, goats, pigs, horses and poultry have become extinct.

To me, preserving heritage breeds is about maintaining biodiversity for the future, as well as being a link to our past.
And what about the simpler reasons, those are important too. Variety is the spice of life! Compare poultry to mushrooms...What if in the future we could only eat canned button mushrooms and never be able to enjoy the variety of textures, colors and flavours of shitaki, morel or portabello mushrooms?
Ok, I'll step down from my soapbox and let someone else get up here!
Liz, I know you will do us all proud promoting our beloved breeds!

I think that heritage breeds are wonderful, links to our past that are functional for the small farmer who wants to have his cake (eggs) and eat it too (processed heritage rooster). I think that the heritage breeds slipped to the wayside because of the invention and mass production of hybrids such as the ISA brown hens, and the franken meat birds. I think that with the industrial revolution, things changed - mass production was on the mind of many in society and farmers and farming wasn't cool or high tech enough.

I love my heritage breeds and we do our best to source out and maintain nice sized flocks of a few rare heritage breeds. If I had the room I would also love Chantecler flocks, but that just isn't realistic with our small acreage.

As others have already expressed, most people today are out of touch with their food. More so, I don't think many people are aware that most of the livestock produced today come from limited strains. I might be wrong but I recall that dairy, for example, relies solely on the Holstein cow. Most Holsteins used for milk production can be traced to only 4 bulls. If a disease were to effect their gene pool it could me a crisis for the daity industry.

My own opinion as to why it is important to preserve heritage is their beauty. Most are unaware that there are a variety of different chickens: they all don't look like Foghorn Leghorn. Chickens have poms, crests, feathered legs. Some have naked necks, feathers like hair and feathers of many different colors. Chickens are not just farm animals but can be kept as pets and can be great companion animals.

Once a breed is lost so too are its genes. There is no getting them back. You may be able to recreate a lost breed but it will never be 100% accurate to what was lost.

It's important to preserve Heritage birds/breeds for form and function. It's also important for genetic diversity.
Just because a breed isn't trendy or pretty doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered important. Often time the ugly bird is most suited to it's purpose.Instinct is important
Alot of the "new" breeds aren't able to survive without human intervention and surely would go extinct.

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

Schipperkesue wrote:

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

OOOOooooo! Sue is playing devil's advocate!
So, on the other hand, what if those other, commercial breeds go extinct? What if we are no longer able to keep filling livestock with antibiotics, or said antibiotics lose their effectiveness? What if fossil fuels become too costly for us to keep providing poultry with heated barns and artificially sterile environments? What if we can't rely on incubators to hatch chicks and brooder lamps to provide warmth? Then where will we be? Those broody little heritage hens would once again be a prized posession.

I have to say, that hands down heritage birds are more hardy then any other variety I've had. SO, while they may cost more to get to point of lay, they lay longer and die less. Plus, they are prettier.

I still vote heritage.

For me, the Chantecler and Buckeye are the most practical choice. It's not all about economics either, cold hardiness, disease resistance, the ability to stay "fresh on the hoof", but the best perk is that the Chantecler is also a patriotic choice. A Canadian chicken with noble purpose that deserves a chance to flourish again.


ICK...can't believe I used the word patriotic in a sentence... Someone call a doctor!

Schipperkesue wrote:
Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

Well, in the case of the Chantecler, it is Our National Breed, and it is a heritage one at that, and we should preserve it because it would be wrong not to.

Schipperkesue wrote:

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

Oh man, I wasn't going to get into this, I was just going to enjoy what others have written. sigh
Does it matter if they become extinct, probably not, isn't that how evolution happens? I truly think it would be a shame though.

I like Sue's comments about the thriftiness and laying ability of the hybrids as that is what I always hear about them. I personally think that was a great marketing thing done by the founders. They are perfect for the eggs farms and they made them seem perfect for a backyard bird as well.

I think people have done a disservice to the Heritage breeds in the way that they have been breeding them to some degree. Losing some of the traits that were valued in the past. Not only number of eggs laid, but the size of the egg as well.

Having said all that, I think it is about education. Many people don't know (or they didn't up here) that a bird will lay well for more than 18-24 months. The regular person getting the hybrids and replacing them every 2 years doesn't realise they can actually have a bird that will lay well for 5-6 years if they pick the right breed.
I always hear it is more cost effective to replace birds every year or two if you want eggs, I am not so sure. I pay for one bird and let it lay for 5 years where others are paying for birds 3 times in the space. I know my birds have so much better shell quality than the hybrids as well. They are just not playing out the same way.
Don't you think it is about letting people know that there are options out there.

I don't think the same argument can be made for the meat birds. Who can compete with 8 weeks to consumption. They are a terminal cross for a purpose anyways.

I suppose it depends on if you like the self replacing method or the as much as I can get for the shortest time. This is all a tough thing for sure.

Hah Reneggaide, great minds think alike.

.

Besides, it is my opinion that as far as looks are concerned, the heritage varieties have it all. The modern meat birds and layers are uninteresting to look at to say the least.

When city slickers think of chickens, they picture the rooster on the kelloggs box, no doubt. Well, that's a heritage chicken. I was just reading about this. If you were to show these people the modern breeds versus the old ones... "Which ones should we keep based on appearance?" It would be the heritage breeds for sure.

Oh, and I would like to add that the thriftiness of meat and laying hybrids - well when you consider how MUCH they actually eat, I think that falls short, too. I feed most of my heritage breeds MUCH MUCH less than the hybrids. Heritage know how to forage, and convert a smaller amount of feed into eggs then the ISA hens.

Also, when considering what the meat birds EAT over those 8 short weeks, I think it comes close to what I feed a heritage roo over the 4-6 months it takes to grow them out. Again - the heritage roo's will forage for feed and actually eat the grass they are raised on.

Here's something to eat on,

in the last quarter centery not one animal has gone extint in NA.

While it may seem very hard to get birds in canada, AKA locate them seems easer then one may think. You just have to be willing to look outside the internet and get in contact with the "local folks" Your friend may have the thing you are looking for.

coopslave wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

Oh man, I wasn't going to get into this, I was just going to enjoy what others have written. sigh
Does it matter if they become extinct, probably not, isn't that how evolution happens? I truly think it would be a shame though.

I like Sue's comments about the thriftiness and laying ability of the hybrids as that is what I always hear about them. I personally think that was a great marketing thing done by the founders. They are perfect for the eggs farms and they made them seem perfect for a backyard bird as well.

I think people have done a disservice to the Heritage breeds in the way that they have been breeding them to some degree. Losing some of the traits that were valued in the past. Not only number of eggs laid, but the size of the egg as well.Having said all that, I think it is about education. Many people don't know (or they didn't up here) that a bird will lay well for more than 18-24 months. The regular person getting the hybrids and replacing them every 2 years doesn't realise they can actually have a bird that will lay well for 5-6 years if they pick the right breed.
I always hear it is more cost effective to replace birds every year or two if you want eggs, I am not so sure. I pay for one bird and let it lay for 5 years where others are paying for birds 3 times in the space. I know my birds have so much better shell quality than the hybrids as well. They are just not playing out the same way.
Don't you think it is about letting people know that there are options out there.

I don't think the same argument can be made for the meat birds. Who can compete with 8 weeks to consumption. They are a terminal cross for a purpose anyways.

I suppose it depends on if you like the self replacing method or the as much as I can get for the shortest time. This is all a tough thing for sure.

Forgive the long quote but I have highlighted the section I wish to address. Here it is again:

I think people have done a disservice to the Heritage breeds in the way that they have been breeding them to some degree. Losing some of the traits that were valued in the past. Not only number of eggs laid, but the size of the egg as well.

Now I am not picking on anyone in particular because I have seen the following behavior in breeders of many species of animals.

You are doing a heritage breed a GREAT disservice when you have a couple mediocre chickens, maybe with faults, maybe even with APA disqualifications and you sell their eggs and chicks touting them as purebred. Buyers purchase your birds and repeat the same procedure, thus continuing to create birds lacking type, size and correct traits.

If you are really, truly dedicated to the heritage ideal you will end up spending money and time and do a whole lot of culling as well as educating yourself on that breed before you offer anything up for sale.

OK, I am bracing myself, let me have it!

(Oh- and I am not innocent of this heinous crime against Heritage breeds myself!)

Sue

Hey Liz,

If you have a copy or can borrow a copy of 'Storey's Illustrated Guide to Poultry Breeds', you'll find on pages 8 - 10 there is a great article on Rare Poultry Breeds and Healthy Biodiversity. The text is courtesy of the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy but I couldn't find it on their website, just in this book. It gives great insight into why we need to preserve and in a sense bring back heritage poultry breeds more than ever. It stresses the importance of biodiversity rather than genetic uniformity giving examples of the Irish potato famine, outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease, and avian influenza as the result of genetic uniformity. Here's a quote:

"The opposite of genetic diversity is genetic uniformity. Populations that have been intensely bred for certain characteristics over time, such as the Broad Breasted White turkey, may be well adapted to a specialized habitat or production system. Unfortunately, such specialization leads to genetic uniformity, resulting in inbreeding and a limited reserve of genetic options. This dramatically restricts the population's ability to adapt to changing conditions, making it vulnerable, for example, to being wiped out by a disease outbreak or by climatic change."

It also includes subtitles within the article in support of Heritage breeds that include: Food Security, Economic Opportunity, Environmental Stewardship, Cultural and Historical Preservation, Common Ownership (opposed to having exclusive rights to certain breeds in the form of patents and other corporate restrictions), etc.

Anyways, I hope that can help you.

Schipperkesue wrote:

coopslave wrote:

Schipperkesue wrote:

DoubleSSRanch wrote:I think a large reason of why many breeds are so critical is they are so hard to get! lol Theres quite a few breeds that I would love to get into, that are listed as critical, less than 1000 breeding birds etc. But try to get ahold of any of them

Why are we saving them? Its our heritage... We didnt devlop as a culture from franken chickens and battery cages. The general public has no idea where their food at the grocery store comes from, and it really bothers me.

Aha! Perhaps they are so hard to get because no one wants them. Isn't it more cost efficient to get a breed of chicken that produces more meat/eggs for the feed you put into them? Why should you keep a breed that will cost you money in the long run?

Why save them? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe there are reasons why they are going extinct/ losing popularity. Maybe they are weak or don't stand up health-wise. Perhaps their gene pool is so limited and in-bred they have genetic health issues that should end their time on earth.



Sue

Oh man, I wasn't going to get into this, I was just going to enjoy what others have written. sigh
Does it matter if they become extinct, probably not, isn't that how evolution happens? I truly think it would be a shame though.

I like Sue's comments about the thriftiness and laying ability of the hybrids as that is what I always hear about them. I personally think that was a great marketing thing done by the founders. They are perfect for the eggs farms and they made them seem perfect for a backyard bird as well.

I think people have done a disservice to the Heritage breeds in the way that they have been breeding them to some degree. Losing some of the traits that were valued in the past. Not only number of eggs laid, but the size of the egg as well.Having said all that, I think it is about education. Many people don't know (or they didn't up here) that a bird will lay well for more than 18-24 months. The regular person getting the hybrids and replacing them every 2 years doesn't realise they can actually have a bird that will lay well for 5-6 years if they pick the right breed.
I always hear it is more cost effective to replace birds every year or two if you want eggs, I am not so sure. I pay for one bird and let it lay for 5 years where others are paying for birds 3 times in the space. I know my birds have so much better shell quality than the hybrids as well. They are just not playing out the same way.
Don't you think it is about letting people know that there are options out there.

I don't think the same argument can be made for the meat birds. Who can compete with 8 weeks to consumption. They are a terminal cross for a purpose anyways.

I suppose it depends on if you like the self replacing method or the as much as I can get for the shortest time. This is all a tough thing for sure.

Forgive the long quote but I have highlighted the section I wish to address. Here it is again:

I think people have done a disservice to the Heritage breeds in the way that they have been breeding them to some degree. Losing some of the traits that were valued in the past. Not only number of eggs laid, but the size of the egg as well.

Now I am not picking on anyone in particular because I have seen the following behavior in breeders of many species of animals.

You are doing a heritage breed a GREAT disservice when you have a couple mediocre chickens, maybe with faults, maybe even with APA disqualifications and you sell their eggs and chicks touting them as purebred. Buyers purchase your birds and repeat the same procedure, thus continuing to create birds lacking type, size and correct traits.

If you are really, truly dedicated to the heritage ideal you will end up spending money and time and do a whole lot of culling as well as educating yourself on that breed before you offer anything up for sale.

OK, I am bracing myself, let me have it!

(Oh- and I am not innocent of this heinous crime against Heritage breeds myself!)

Sue

I think this is off down a wandering trail far from being on topic. However, I have yet to see a flock or even a bird without a single fault.

By this way of thinking, everything not perfect would need to be culled (killed) - because who's to say that a seemingly harmless person looking for a pet wouldn't breed their imperfect "pet" bird.

I am guilty of selling non-show quality polish frizzles. I love them as pets, and their price reflects their quality as it correlates to the APA SOP. The people that buy them from me aren't looking to breed them, they are looking to have pets for their kids. I don't think I am doing heritage poultry a disservice. My polish frizzles are healthy and happy, and the folks looking for their offspring just want some cute pets.

We are not talking about cats or dogs where thoughtlessly bred offspring end up cramming up shelters and spca's. If you don't like your "purebred heritage" chicken, eat it.

And, on that note, I will STILL take heritage birds. Even poorly bred ones.

o.k so what you are saying is only breed to perfection....and DONT SELL anything that isnt perfect...o.k how can you get to perfect if you DONT breed some of the unprefect ones? and what to do with the chicks that are not up to APA standards that you will get if you are breeding to try to perfect this breed? now i have seen show dogs like lets take the shepherd for example the showquality shepherd...with their haunches so low they can barley walk...and get hip displacia within a year old...now its show quality...... does that make it better quality? i dont think so... unless you like vet bills

sorry but i respectfully dissagree i have seen and i have a living example of what a so called "breeder" sold me from ontario nothing but problems doesnt make it any better than a free barn kitten

By breeding large quantities of poultry it allows breeders to choose the very best to put forward. Does that mean all the rest should be killed? The pullets make nice laying hens. The cockerels make nice roasting birds, but at the end of the day there has to be some financial income from the chickens or they too would be only for the elite of society (who don't mind getting crap on their shoes cleaning coops). Chickens are supposed to be fun and functional. If you are working towards perfection but aren't quite there who cares nothing is prefect, there is nothing wrong with sharing especialy if they are rare!. Everyone starts somewhere."""""

Hmmm...I think everyone is being a bit sensitive about this. I understand what Sue is talking about. None of my birds are anywhere close to perfect and they certainly don`t meet the Standard...yet. I have taken no offence to this because in my mind what Sue is talking about is the difference between mindless breeding for the sake of in and breeding for improvement with thought and concious decisions. There is always lots of culls when breeding chickens, just comes with the territory, but if you are breeding with thought and attention even your culls are lovely birds useful as layers or eating.
If you are spewing out hatchlings from eggs that you have no idea the history of, then you may get anything and chances are they will not be very close to what the breed should be. Even if you buy a pair of birds that seem ok, you really don`t know what they are going to produce until you grow some of the offspring out.
I happen to agree with Sue. It doesn`t mean people have to breed for the Standard as I think there are some very good crossbreds out there as well. But I don`t agree with breeding just to breed, especially if you are selling them as purebred, heritage birds.
So sling some of it at me too.

i hope i dont sound snotty that isnt my intent "i am not good at typing" ....i just stating my opinon thats all if people didnt share their rare breeds with others to enjoy faults or no faults there wouldnt be many rare breeds for the world to see...