More horse, of course.

Are you sick of my horse questions yet? Sure hope not.

We all know that it is best for the foal from a physical stand point, to be weaned later rather than sooner. More mom = stronger baby.

BUT...what if mom has some serioulsy bad habits that she is teaching the baby? I have discussed before that the mother was starved and has a lingerng and pervasive need to get to food and is a fence wrecker as a result. Never content to just stand and swish flies, she is in a CONSTANT state of trying to reach anything she can eat.

She is teaching this disregard for fencing to the baby!

I have posted how to manage this in the mother and received many excellent replies. What I am struggling with here is that maybe I have the chance to PREVENT this behaviour in the baby, but only if I get her away from her mother's influence. I would not even consider weaning the baby until the end of August, at which point she will be 4 months old. I would have liked to leave them together longer, but I am seeing behaviour in baby that will make her a really annoying horse as an adult, all of it learned at mother's side. Mother came by it honestly, she was strved and hasn't gotten over it. BUt baby has no excuse other than monkey see, monkey do.

So while physically best to stay with mom longer, I am really thinking that mentally it might be best to separate. I think this is a difficult situation and undecided about what to do.

Could you prevent the cribbing by running an electric wire along the fence?

Sue

I'm not seeing anything here about cribbing. Mauybe it was part of another post (??). If Mom cribs, I would definitely wean baby ASAP. If it the food thing though, I don't think baby will be as voracious. She has never known starvation. She will need (as part of any halter breaking) respect for her handler to not snatch at anything, but I bet the desire won't be as deep set and therefore not a big issue. Mom can still teach her lots of good things such as respect for others and that can be invaluable.

I would really try to "fix" momma if possible in a way that will help to teach baby fence etiquette also. Baby may also touch a hot wire if placed properly, and she will definitely decide that a fence is something to respect! If the only issue is the fence thing I would do the hotwire and see if it helps. IF it does not then go ahead and seriously think about weaning, but I don't like to wean a baby early if there is any possible way of keeping it on momma.

Susan wrote:I'm not seeing anything here about cribbing. Mauybe it was part of another post (??). If Mom cribs, I would definitely wean baby ASAP. If it the food thing though, I don't think baby will be as voracious. She has never known starvation. She will need (as part of any halter breaking) respect for her handler to not snatch at anything, but I bet the desire won't be as deep set and therefore not a big issue. Mom can still teach her lots of good things such as respect for others and that can be invaluable.

Uno mentioned she is wrecking fences. Perhaps I am using the term cribbing wrong? I assume she is wrecking fences by biting them. If that is the case, a little shot of electricity may be a deterrant.

Sue

Amazingly the horse is NOT chewing on the fences. Just leaning over them in a post-starvation mania to reach anything green on the other side. She's eaten a forest!

Other threads have been about her leftover starvation phobias and her CONSTANT need to be endlessly eating, despite copious amounts of food. My concern here is that baby sees mom stickng her head through, over and under gates and fences, leaning hard against man-made obstacles. An electric wire would fix that. MY concern here was about mom passing this lousy, spastic behaviour onto the foal.

I do not dislike the mom, she is a great little horse with a sad past and loads of potential. But it is becoming obviouss she might always be a management issue due to her former starvation. I DO NOT want the foal to learn this constant and obsessive need to be hunting for food. Thus I was wondering if weaning the foal earlier rather than later might spare her learning bad habits that she will need to be shocked to unlearn. ALready her head is through every fence/ gate she encounters.

You might be able to unteach this behavior after weaning but the mares are amazing influences. My mare is a houdini and her son is ten times worse. He needs to be locked up like fort knoxx! Hopefully the filly will settle down once she is one her own and not following mama all day. Maybe try offering her toys - balls, traffic cones, exercise balls to keep her occupied while her mother paces the fences.I dont think 4 months is unreasonable to wean I would just make sure she can eat grain and hay on her own and enough to sustain her growth. They do put dogs on medication to help with anxiety disorders. Might be something to ask the vet about but it would be an awful lot of valium!

Anne

Schipperkesue wrote:

Susan wrote:I'm not seeing anything here about cribbing. Mauybe it was part of another post (??). If Mom cribs, I would definitely wean baby ASAP. If it the food thing though, I don't think baby will be as voracious. She has never known starvation. She will need (as part of any halter breaking) respect for her handler to not snatch at anything, but I bet the desire won't be as deep set and therefore not a big issue. Mom can still teach her lots of good things such as respect for others and that can be invaluable.

Uno mentioned she is wrecking fences. Perhaps I am using the term cribbing wrong? I assume she is wrecking fences by biting them. If that is the case, a little shot of electricity may be a deterrant.

Sue

No help to Uno's question, but clarifying that fence chewing and cribbing are completely different. Cribbing is when they place their top teeth on a solid object (usually a fence, or post) and straighten their necks which puts pressure on the solid object. They will usually grunt at the same time. This gives them an endorphin rush so it can become addictive.
Some people call it wind sucking.

Ahah! A horsey term defined! Thanks Hillbilly. Horsey people around here use the term to describe fence chewing.

Uno, I think someone suggested a 'muzzle' (correct term?). If mom wears one and realizes she cannot eat, do you think she will stop trying and thus no longer teach the babe bad habits?

Sue

Hi Sue! YEs, the muzzle idea is on the table. Yesterday I bought a hay net, confuzzling things! It seems to have slowed her rate of consumption WAAAYYY down, so it took her twice as long to get through her morning feed. This is a good thing!Keeps her at the net and OFF the fences. There are hay bags that make feeding even slower, but since I still want baby to get adequate feed, I can't make it too hard to eat.

As for valium, I feel ready to take a few pills! In fact...I have treated the mare once homepathically with remedies aimed at past trauma. Once is not enough and I should really follow up with a few more doses. BUt I'm not against taking valium if the vet thinks it will help me.