New Flu Outbreak

Chilliwack outbreak yesterday in a backyard flock, 2 kms from my house. Please do not get lax in your Bio security. Remember in 2004 this is the time when the major outbreak took place.

This is not good to hear, oh rats. Have an awesome day, CynthiaM

CRAP! How awful, just when we started to think this might be almost over.

Oh no, that's unfortunate. Finger crossed that it doesn't spread.

Hopefully as soon as this migration of water fowl is finished returning north - this will all end!!!!!! But, I just cannot help wondering - how is it some places are hit and not others???? Is it the breed of bird? The biosecurity of place? The proximity to open water sources for the migrating birds???? If there was an answer to this - maybe it could be prevented in future? Racking my brain!!

Kcampbell, Here in the fraser valley everyday I could count hundreds of geese flying over our house. At this time I have 6 wild wood ducks and 8 mallards in the front creek on our farm . Migrating birds from the south have not arrived yet . I now think the flu is something fraser valley residents should prepare for yearly!! What I think should happen in BC is the boundaries or zones CFIA sets should change .The chances of people in the interior of the BC getting infected are far less than down here. Just my 2 cents worth.

You may be right BobG - but why some farms and not others infected? CFIA knows it is with migratory birds - what do the majority of local flocks have that is giving such good resistance and the few not? (mind you - the few that are not are huge holdings of birds) Do you think that has something to do with it?

Outside of the Langley Aldergrove farms the flu seems to be in the flat lands . The high water table of this area may be part of the reason , the ditches fill up the fields flood the ducks , geese , swans feed and preen . This is all part of the problem in containing the spread of the flu virus . Why some flocks get it and others do not is up to the scientists to figure out.

wish I had a more scientific mind - there is so much to know about this virus!!

I'm here in AB. I agree with you Bob G. Perhaps it would be good practice to identify the affected area as a zone known for AI. Perhaps wise that anyone keeping poultry in the zone to take extra measures to protect their flocks.

kcampbell, I agree that maybe studying the migratory path of the birds, the species, might reveal something that could be used in regards to AI. However, that is up to the scientists and for that to happen, someone would have to think it's warranted.

I know being in AB, we here would be wise to take what is happening in BC and see what we can do to protect our flocks. During the spring migration, I see loads of geese and ducks. Many of which used the wetlands around me. I was aware before not to encourage wild waterfowl because of the potential of wild strains of ILT. I am making plans to further improve on my bio-security based on what is happening in BC.

So true Toybarons, I am in the interior - dry and cold here - not a friendly place for migratory water fowl. And yes - science was never a major of mine. I just wish someone COULD put together the pieces of the puzzle that leads to this BEFORE it becomes a yearly happening in BC. ie: where have these birds been, why is this virus migrating and becoming so much more deadly, why are some flocks hit and not others - BobG has a valid point in the water tables. Might be something for agriculture industry to look at before issuing ok for certain industries to build. ie: high water table areas - NOT good for huge fowl industries. Especially in mass numbers of birds. ??? Thoughts??

Bob G wrote:Kcampbell,  Here in the fraser valley everyday I  could count hundreds of geese flying over our house. At this time I have 6 wild wood ducks and 8 mallards in the front creek on our farm . Migrating birds from the south have not arrived yet . I now think the flu is something  fraser valley residents should prepare for yearly!!                   What I think should happen  in BC is the boundaries or zones CFIA sets should change .The chances of people in the interior of the BC getting infected are far less than down here. Just my 2 cents worth.

Yes BC boy we all cant live in the OK Valley

Its was raining all day long here today.

I live mid Island,  between Qualicum Beach and Qualicum Bay.  Every year in January the beautiful Snow Geese arrive, they aren't too far from my place at the potato farm/ Cranberry bogs. There is also a huge flock at the Comox Valley  veg farm. They stay here for over a month. The the spectacular Trumpeter Swans arrive, much the same senario.  We have no cases of  Bird Flu on the Island, didn't last time either.  We also don't have huge congregations of intense poultry barns. We have lots of small backyard  and hobby flocks.  Just a thought.

debbiej , First off I think the factory farms are the main reason for the spread of the flu. They do not cause it .The wild waterfowl are the host of the virus , it can get into the barns many ways, despite bio security that are in place. The island and Interior are free of the flu again, that is why I think only the fraser valley should be in lockdown, nothing in nothing out .

Bob G wrote:debbiej , First off I think the factory farms are the main reason for the spread of the flu. They do not cause it .The wild waterfowl are the host of the virus , it can get into the barns many ways, despite bio security that are in place. The island and Interior are free of the flu again, that is why I think only the fraser valley  should be in lockdown, nothing in nothing out .  

I agree.
What I find interesting in this is before this outbreak, there was a lot of talk about disease. First it was ILT and then MG. I read my share of comments holding the commercial poultry industry up as practicing the best of bio-security Vs the disease spreading backyard flock owners and how we were the ticking time bomb just waiting to go off. Yet all I have heard since this is how the lack of proper protcol in the intial commerical barns brought AI into their operations. Then I read the comments of how the 2004 AI outbreak happened, again due to poor bio-security in commercial operations.

I think this is a good lesson in that commercial poultry operations are not perfect with their bio-security. That AI is something that if you live where it occurs, one needs to always be dilegent to prevent it. Sadly, maybe even then everything one does can only go so far and that dispite best efforts disease will occur?

Bob G wrote:debbiej , First off I think the factory farms are the main reason for the spread of the flu. They do not cause it .  

Hi Bob,

I studied avian flu in depth during and after the 2004 outbreak. What I learned suggests you may not be 100% correct.


The wild birds can carry low pathology avian flu. Because it doesn't have a high mortality rate, it can persist in flocks of lower density. However, when low pathology avian influenza finds it's way into flocks that are genetically uniform and high density, they are entering an environment where they can thrive and easily mutate. In this environment, high pathogy mutations can thrive and create the outbreak. Therefore, the AI outbreak was created in the factory farms.

Now, what I learned was that the high path form cannot persist in genetically diverse flocks of low density. Even if AI found it's way into my flock, I was told it would not be able to survive and would eventually die off. Anyway, that is what I learned.

Now I strongly suspect we had the low path form of AI on the Island for the 2014 season. Complaints of low egg production was very common last year, a symptom of AI. But I haven't heard much of high mortalities, suggesting that the high path form is not involved.

FWIW, I work at a local slaughter house and even many of the regular meat bird growers were complaining about more than normal health issues. Just about every Orlopp bronze turkey had it's liver condemed which I found very odd since only one of my bronze turkey livers was condemmed and I break every turkey rule there is. They pasture with chickens and sleep on logs under the stars!

Interesting Wayne, my question back to you would be this .The backyard flock culled near me was a mixed flock of layers .The family has raised their own birds for years , survived 04 yet this year ,they get wiped out. I have to wonder what the difference is in this case? Your views on this would be appreciated. Thanks Bob

debbiej wrote:I live mid Island,  between Qualicum Beach and Qualicum Bay.  Every year in January the beautiful Snow Geese arrive, they aren't too far from my place at the potato farm/ Cranberry bogs. There is also a huge flock at the Comox Valley  veg farm. They stay here for over a month. The the spectacular Trumpeter Swans arrive, much the same senario.  We have no cases of  Bird Flu on the Island, didn't last time either.  We also don't have huge congregations of intense poultry barns. We have lots of small backyard  and hobby flocks.  Just a thought.

Have you seen and dead migratory birds around your area this year? That would be a bad signs....

Omega Blue Farms wrote:

However, when low pathology avian influenza finds it's way into flocks that are genetically uniform and high density, they are entering an environment where they can thrive and easily mutate. In this environment, high pathogy mutations can thrive and create the outbreak. Therefore, the AI outbreak was created in the factory farms.

Where have I read this before????

BC Boy , we think along the same lines.

Bob G wrote:Interesting Wayne, my question  back to you would be this .The backyard flock  culled near me was a mixed flock  of layers .The family has raised their own birds for years , survived  04 yet this year ,they get wiped out.   I have to wonder what the difference is in this case? Your  views on this would be appreciated.  Thanks Bob

Hey Bob,

I would need more details on that case to be able to respond. For instance, why was the flock wiped out? Did the disease wipe out the flock or was it the authorities? If it was the authorities, what exactly did they find? The actual disease, or just antibodies indicating exposure to the disease? What was the actual breeds involved, the actual numbers, and what was their density?

I attended several government led information sessions after the 2004 outbreak where CFIA and provincial stakeholders shared what they learned from the experience. I found submissions from BC's poultry pathologist Victoria Bowes to be especially informative.

Omega Blue Farms wrote:

Bob G wrote:debbiej , First off I think the factory farms are the main reason for the spread of the flu. They do not cause it .  

The wild birds can carry low pathology avian flu. Because it doesn't have a high mortality rate, it can persist in flocks of lower density. However, when low pathology avian influenza finds it's way into flocks that are genetically uniform and high density, they are entering an environment where they can thrive and easily mutate. In this environment, high pathogy mutations can thrive and create the outbreak. Therefore, the AI outbreak was created in the factory farms.

The new outbreak is not a low path turned high path. It's a high path AI strain found naturally in wild populations, which makes it dramatically different from previous outbreaks in previous years. The high path form already exists in the wild.

I think why some farms have escaped getting infection, pure dumb luck. I'm right next to an infected farm and do not have AI. Do I think it's entirely due to strict biosecurity, no, just think I'm lucky. I don't have wild waterfowl in my ponds. The backyard flocks that have had AI, had water sources shared with wild waterfowl.

Sorry Wayne I needed more info , I wanted  to make sure I was not misinformed , The flock was 80 birds a mix of heritage and ISA type layers age of fowl18 months to 4 yrs. Free ranged flock deaths came suddenly according to my source the strain in this case was  H5 N1 , commercial barns was H5 N2 I think . Of note  2 houses down a flock of ISA type layers has not  been infected .