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Who Vaccinate's their flocks?

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26 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:26 pm

HigginsRAT


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27 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:18 am

Dan Smith


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Hi Jayme, I sent you a pm re vaccine. Thank you Dan Smith

28 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:13 am

Rasilon

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Tara I went to the links you provided. Thank you. What I got from it is you can vaccinate but if you take the vaccinated birds to a show they can infect other birds. My friend shows their birdsd and I would like to show once I get something to show so vaccinating may notbe the answer. Not sure what to think now .

29 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:02 am

HigginsRAT


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30 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:03 am

Hidden River

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With the old vaccine yes vaccinated birds could spread the disease on, and sometimes make outbreaks themselves. But as explained by the poultry vets the new vaccine is a non shedding vaccine, it does not make the birds sick and it does not spread to other birds that have not been vaccinated.

If you have a carrier bird that you vaccinate later in life, it still can spread the disease, that is why it is important to vaccinate young chicks prior to being exposed to adult birds so they can get their immunity up.

As with any vaccine there is never 100% coverage, some animals mount immunity differently then others and therefore is never 100% guarantee.


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31 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:42 am

Arcticsun

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HigginsRAT wrote:

We breed for Marek's resistance...resistance factor "B21" detected via a blood test. .

I would LOVE it if you were to start a thread about your resistance breeding program and the testing for it. How do you sample, who do you sample, where do you send your samples, can you clear by descent? Tell us more! I would love to breed for resistance.



Three Old Hens started the education program with presentations and discussions about ILT. Interestingly it was met with enthusiasm, confusion and outright hostility! We hired the Govt provincial avian vet and an avian veterinary pathologist to talk. It was the first of this type of presentation offered that we could find in the past 10 years. For many people it was the first time ever they had heard about ILT. Three Old Hens was really put off by some people's reactions. We were told that what we were doing was useless, or "a joke" (that is a quote), or the anger/threats. We want to really push the educational aspect of events. MOst of the people going to the show are newbies, and as Alberta has been lacking poultry events and education opportunities or many many years, we are looking for ways to bring all this back. CHB is also onboard with this.

Sadly any place where there is poultry can be a source of transmission, be it a sale, a show, an auction (the worst in my opinion)and of course there is always the problem of natural transmission from wild birds. I tried something different this year. I put my birds all on Superbooster and tylan before the show, and continued it after the show. I have not lost any birds (knock on wood). I had Cochichins and Silkies there, about 25 birds or so total.

32 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:31 am

HigginsRAT


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33 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:01 am

HigginsRAT


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34 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:47 am

KathyS

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Well first of all I'm surprised to learn that there were sick birds at the CHB show, although I guess it is naive to think a gathering of poultry that size would not include some carriers of disease.

I have to respond to Arctic's comment about the vet presentation last May...these kinds of educational opportunities are priceless! I cannot believe there were people upset that you offered this in conjunction with the spring sale. I learned so much at that seminar...it was the deciding factor for me to begin my vaccination program. Every bird on my farm older than 4 weeks of age now gets vaccinated for ILT. That is such a nasty disease, and so easy to vaccinate for. I really feel a responsibility as a breeder/exhibitor to protect my birds and help prevent the spread of this disease by providing this vaccine. And it needs to be understood that this vaccine we use now is NON-SHEDDING.
Mareks is another whole ballgame, and I am in the camp with those breeding for resistance. However, I can respect the decision of thse who choose to vaccinate for Mareks. It is a personal choice.

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35 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:02 am

Arcticsun

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The first presentation Three Old Hens did was about 2 years ago or so? I dont even rememebr, time flys so fast! And then another the next year. Nothing was canceled, and we learned A LOT! For example the availability of non shedding vaccine. We are planning on having more educational events at Three Old Hens events and at CHB events.

CHB went through the cages bird by bird looking for sick animals all weekend. Sadly the birds can seem absolutely fine when they leave the farm, and great the first day of the show, but the stress of moving them etc can have things flair by day two or three. We do our best, and I dont think that anyone would intentionally bring an ill birds. Consider that of the 2000+, yes that is TWOTHOUSAND PLUS birds that were in the building, it would only take one to be ill to affect at least a couple other birds, possibly more.

36 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:01 pm

Rasilon

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Arcticsun wrote:The first presentation Three Old Hens did was about 2 years ago or so? I dont even rememebr, time flys so fast! And then another the next year. Nothing was canceled, and we learned A LOT! For example the availability of non shedding vaccine. We are planning on having more educational events at Three Old Hens events and at CHB events.

CHB went through the cages bird by bird looking for sick animals all weekend. Sadly the birds can seem absolutely fine when they leave the farm, and great the first day of the show, but the stress of moving them etc can have things flair by day two or three. We do our best, and I dont think that anyone would intentionally bring an ill birds. Consider that of the 2000+, yes that is TWOTHOUSAND PLUS birds that were in the building, it would only take one to be ill to affect at least a couple other birds, possibly more.

I apologize. My post was only for information not to lay blame anywhere ever. I have shown dogs for over 25 years I have never vaccinated for kennel cough. There are just too many strains. Have I brought it home.. yes and we give cough syrup and wait until it goes away. As I tried to say earlier too early this morning. I don't do anything to my stock to help lower their immune systems. no anibioiotics. no strong disinfectant. I am trying to feed as natural as possible no grain for the dogs and I am mixing my pwn chicken feed. Sorry if I offended anyone. It was just unfortunate that it happened.
Geri

37 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:17 pm

Arcticsun

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Ralison... no worries!
The chance of sick birds is a possibility what ever event you go to, what ever farm your visit. Because heritage breedsers are not "all in, all out" like a commercial opperation where the barns are full, then totally empty, sterilized, then filled again, we will always have carrier birds amongst the population. It could be any bird at all, even one from a "clean" coop as there is the chance of catching disease from a wild bird also.

I finished my first champion in 1975, and I have also never vaccinated for kennel cough. We traveled everywhere and brought home more than a few bugs. Every so often we would see someone coughing, so I would sepperate them for a few days , until it passed (never had to resort to antibiotics, dont like using them). Durring a particularly bad and virulent outbreak on the show circuit, we did get a rousing case of kennel cough in one of my boys, once. I brought him into the house along with everyone else. They were in the living room with him for almost two days while he was sick. In the end I had just about everyone show at least some level of symptoms, and that was the last we saw of it in the kennel for many years.

Im a newbie to chickens, still learning, still lots to learn. Sadly there has not been a major poultry club presnece in such a long time that just about everyone is a newbie now!

38 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:32 pm

Rasilon

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[

Im a newbie to chickens, still learning, still lots to learn. Sadly there has not been a major poultry club presnece in such a long time that just about everyone is a newbie now!
[/quote]

I am new to the heritage breeds as well. I would like to show . I have been to 2 shows so far one as a spectator and the last one I had birds entered. My little partridge silkie hen won breed.. Yeah..lollo
Whats the use of having chickens if you have to keep them in a bubble??
Geri

39 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:36 pm

Piet

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Rasilon wrote:[

Im a newbie to chickens, still learning, still lots to learn. Sadly there has not been a major poultry club presnece in such a long time that just about everyone is a newbie now!

I am new to the heritage breeds as well. I would like to show . I have been to 2 shows so far one as a spectator and the last one I had birds entered. My little partridge silkie hen won breed.. Yeah..lollo
Whats the use of having chickens if you have to keep them in a bubble??
Geri
[/quote]

Congrats on your show winning. Also I agree with your last statement.
Mentioned earlier that the ones who do not vaccinate will put everyone elses chickens at risk during a show, this is a total bologna thing to say really. You are putting only your own birds at risk by having them not vaccinated for ILT. I am maybe to trustful of other breeders as I would never show a bird that has been sick for something "unknow" to me. If there is only the slightest doubt that there is something not a 100%, I would not sell, give away or show until they were proven clean of it!! And if my chicken got sick for a day and I did not notice it, because it fought if off without even losing condition or going off feed, then it's no big deal. If it now carries that tiny bug and goes to kiss your chicken and it dies after than your chicken is very weak to begin with and should be better off under the manure pile anyway:affraid:

Back in Holland after a show the rabbits sometimes got a bit sick shortly after, but most often they got over it within a week. You hear from college breeders they had the same happen..sucks, but that will happen sometimes. Chickens, never had a problem with. To show, chickens have to be vaccinated over there for NCD and must show the vets certificate for it or they will not be allowed in the show. That is the only disease that MUST be vaccinated for over there.
12000 animals at the Championshow in Nieuwegein this weekend. Everyone had a blast and some awesome fur and feathers to be seen. In Europe it is a tradition held for over a hundred years, shows all over during the winter months in each and every little town. Go to Germany and watch 30 thousand in one building. If they can do it , why can't we??!! Go ahead and vaccinate all you want, but don't piss on people who don't. I understand that if you rely on putting out high numbers of chicks to fill orders and are relying on it, it is more important to be "sure" that nothing happens, because that just makes more sense in a financial way.

Piet

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40 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Arcticsun

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I have been thinking about things, showing, quarrentine after, the chances one takes, who to show, and I think that from now on I will only show my "almost best" birds. My very best BREEDING birds will stay at home producing great babies. If my birds get sick because of a show, then I will still have my very best at home. I can use the show to learn more about what I have and how my breeding selection is doing.

If I keep my VERY BEST birds at home, they will be safe then. And should something bad happen, I can go on.

Also I will me much more careful about the isolation of birds after a show.

41 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:07 pm

Piet

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Arcticsun wrote:

If I keep my VERY BEST birds at home, they will be safe then. And should something bad happen, I can go on.

Also I will me much more careful about the isolation of birds after a show.

It is a luxury if you can do so and a great thing to do period. I do the same, some animals are just too important for me to show them around and risk not being able to produce from them. On the other hand, it is good when other people do show their best over and over, they come back to me and buy another Flemish that they can show because the last one they paid top dollar for and got them ribbons died before it even got to reproduce. It is not easy for a 19 lb rabbit to travel in hot Southern USA for days on end to all the shows. bom

Piet

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42 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:09 pm

coopslave

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Arcticsun wrote:I have been thinking about things, showing, quarantine after, the chances one takes, who to show, and I think that from now on I will only show my "almost best" birds. My very best BREEDING birds will stay at home producing great babies. If my birds get sick because of a show, then I will still have my very best at home. I can use the show to learn more about what I have and how my breeding selection is doing.

If I keep my VERY BEST birds at home, they will be safe then. And should something bad happen, I can go on.


I knew an older breeder and shower in Australia. He was a very interesting man and I would always look for him at shows to have a chat with. When people would tell him how wonderful his birds were, and they were, he would always smile this smile like he had a secret and then he would graciously thank them for the compliment.

I was at a show one day chatting with him and someone again said how amazing his birds were, same deal as always. As the person walked away he leaned in closer to me and whispered very quietly "If they think these birds are good, they should see the ones that stay at home." That was the last that was said of that, but it has always stuck with me. Sneaky old fellow kept all his best birds at home and didn't risk them. Only the seconds and thirds came to the show and they were still great birds. Laughing
If I ever show I think I will remember my wiley old friend's words. Wink

43 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:56 pm

toybarons

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THis is one heck of a good topic. I generally skim through but this topic has me reading each post. Some of the opinions really surprised me. Again this is why forums like this one can be so valueable.


44 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:40 pm

Hidden River

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Sorry was away and missed responding to some of these posts.

First to Artics, the first seminar was responded to by some (myself included) with uncertanty and confusion really. The majority of the seminar was on Avian Influenza, which yes is important, but wasnt really geared to backyard flocks. The portion on ILT was short and sweet and lacking important information, etc. Only because they only had so much time to present it which I completely understand.
The second presentation was better understood by myself and many others, just wish more would have been able to attend it and get the proper information.

Second to Piet, I was not putting down any people that choose not to vaccinate. I was simply stating that as a closed flock you are not putting your birds at risk as much as others do when showing or taking livestock to Market Sales and taking them home again. When people are learning about vaccines and such the more knowledge the better, and your points are well taken, but my points are simply stating that birds exposed to ILT and get sick even if it is very slight, they can pass this sickness on.
This quote from you is exactly what I was trying to put across,
Mentioned earlier that the ones who do not vaccinate will put everyone elses chickens at risk during a show, this is a total bologna thing to say really. You are putting only your own birds at risk by having them not vaccinated for ILT.
I think that people are responsible for their own livestock and have their own beliefs on vaccinating and not vaccinating. I wouldnt say my statement was complete bologna. I was simply stating that unvaccinated, EXPOSED birds, will pass on the virus.

Tara, I talked to the vet and the vaccine reps and they say that the birds do not pass the virus as they are building immunity. The vaccine is not live, therefore they do not get the actual virus, the are simply reacting to an altered peice of the virus, mounting a response and a protection.
It is important though to keep the birds away from other birds during their period of building immunity, you want them to have the top protection before being exposed to anything.

As for dog vaccines there are many thoughts on those. Basically I worry about things that are going to kill my dogs or are known to be in your area. Distemper, parvo, and rabies are big ones. I would not take my LGD, not vaccinate him for rabies, and then put him into a pile of coyotes when I know one had it...

I guess that is my phylosiphy on chickens, I have heard of birds getting sick after each show/sale, and for my peice of mind of going to these shows/sales I want to have my birds protected. Others can make up their own minds and take their own risks...


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45 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:57 pm

Arcticsun

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Every time we do a sale, show, or seminar, we get better at it. The first seminar was not focused on a few things, including vaccinations, what they are, how they work, how diseases are passed from flock to flock (Avian flu was the disease used as the example disease) and then a discussion on ILT. As no one had ever attended a seminar like this before, many were unsure of what to expect, and I would guess that many had not been in a classroom or to a lecture in years, lol.

Regardless, Three Old Hens is going to continue with the Education aspect. We have big plans for the November CHB show!

46 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:45 pm

Hidden River

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Arcticsun wrote:

Regardless, Three Old Hens is going to continue with the Education aspect. We have big plans for the November CHB show!

That is good Arctic, I do look forward to more educational seminars. I for one like to learn and the more information I get the better.
I realize it all takes time, funding, and organizing. I appreciate all those involved in putting these events on.


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47 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:50 pm

Arcticsun

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Well if anyone has any topics they would like covered or if there is anyone here who has something they would like to do a presentation on, let us know!

48 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:36 pm

Hidden River

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I would love to learn more about CRD in Poultry, and more about Marek's disease. Those are my two big ones right now.
Of course there is always feed questions, parasite questions...


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Raising Heritage Chickens, Guinea Fowl, Waterfowl, Katahdin Sheep, Angus and Jersey Cattle. Mother of 2 wonderful girls and wife to a very understanding Husband.
www.hiddenriverranch.weebly.com
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49 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:49 pm

Arcticsun

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CRD and Mareks. Good choices.
I am getting onto seminars and such for the Nov show. I will see what we can do.

50 Re: Who Vaccinate's their flocks? on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:08 pm

toybarons

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Arctic, personally I would thank you for what you have done in making these seminars happen. What you and your associates have done, I feel is invalueable. We attended that seminar at the 3 OLd Hens show and I don't know any other way we could have got access to those speakers. Afterwards, I was able to take the time to talk with the provincial vet and the information learned has been important.

This is just my opinion and I'm not too bright on diseases and I don't have the years of experience breeding/showing. I'm just a fancier that likes to keep pet chooks and show them.

ILT is a disease that has been around for ages. But unlike the other diseases chooks can get, it is one of the few that is reportable. Here in Alberta while you don't HAVE to vacinate for ILT, you are supposed to report any suspect cases. However a case of ILT is reported, it is investigated and if your flock tests positive it is possible that your flock can be killed to prevent its spread. This is what I was told when I spoke to the ALberta Provincial vet.
The thought of a government body coming onto your property, seizing and killing your flock if ILT tests positive is frightening.

Worse is I nearly had that happen a few years ago when I innocently asked what does it mean if you see blood around a bird's mouth? I got a personal email from someone I didn't know who read my question, who scared the hell out of me when they said that my question could imply I had a bird with ILT and that they were doing me a favor by not reporting me. That was how I got introduced to ILT.

I gave this much thought from my earlier post as my reason for chosing to vacinate for ILT. For now I think it is in flocks' best intrest.
From my understanding of what the AB Provincial vet explained to me was the concern is the source of ILT if an outbreak happens. By vacinating my flock, if tested for ILT, the vet is able to tell if the ILT is a wild strain or one that is introduced via vacine. The provincial vet did make it clear to me that while vacinating for ILT does not mean my flock would be spared a cull during an outbreak, it might help me in keeping my birds.



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