Blue cochin (large fowl) owners, pictures added, pic HEAVY

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HigginsRAT wrote:it makes me smile that knowing smile! Welcome, welcome...to the dark side...do you dare venture in? <wicked evil laughter> No not the infamous colour wheel...eeeek

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta
- Miss yah Makes; December 7, 1995 – February 4, 2011 ^~~^

WF: DUCKS: Calls (24 varieties), East Indies, Mandarins, Crested Ducks, Australian Spotted, Hookbills, & Appleyards.
GEESE: Buff & Buff Pied American.
SWANS: Australian Black.
LF: BANTAM Brahmas, Wyandottes, Booteds, & Chanteclers & STANDARD Chanteclers (Partridge, Buff, Orange Clay, & White).
Heritage TURKEYS (Jersey Buff, Bronze, Narragansett, Slate, Red Bronze, Rusty Black, Red Blue Bronze, Lilac, & Sweetgrass).
PHEASANTS: Red Golden & Silver.
Registered: Australian Cattle Dogs, Jacob Sheep, Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, & Llamas. Pond Fish.

I have never had a fear of entering the dark side, these are things that make our lives interesting, "on the dark side, on the dark side", beautiful days, I am listening.CynthiaM.

Cynthia ... I found you

snaphu wrote:Cynthia ... I found you

Oh, you scared me for a moment, and wondered who was stalking me, eeks . But then I smiled, saw the location and mostly saw the viking avatar, and figured it out in pretty good order -- very cool by the way, so nice to have you on board matey!! Have that great and awesome day, CynthiaM.

Now you'll have to stick around here a bit and tell the world about your Viking breed of chickens, oh so cool!!!!

CynthiaM wrote:Have that great and awesome day, CynthiaM. Now you'll have to stick around here a bit and tell the world about your Viking breed of chickens, oh so cool!!!!

I've put a couple of links to information on this rare breed "Islanski Hænur" aka Viking Chickens in my signature ↓↓↓
I hope your day is awesome also! It's cold and sunny here -2°C.... had to put out the heated waterers!

Coopslave, did you keep that link on CFI for shank colours, that big but old time publication...I may have but gotta go find it. Post it if I do. Someone sent me a link to a pdf file on shank colour study, it may mention going from willow to yellow.

Here is the link to the thread that was started here in Aug.
https://wcps.canadian-forum.com/t1388-willow-shanks?highlight=willow
It has that link in it.

In my mind willow is different than a dusky leg. I am not sure if the genetics are that much different but to me their appearance is very different.
In the Standard:
`willow-the dusky yellowish green colour found on the shanks, feet and toes of some breeds and varieties of fowl; example Golden and Silver Duckwing Modern Games, etc.`
`dusky-refers to a shading of black pigment in the epidermis over yellow pigment in the dermis as in dusky yellow shanks.`

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so here goes.

This pullet has what I would call willow legs:



And this pullet, like most of my Chanteclers, have what I would call a dusky leg:


They are both yellow based.

This cross bred cockerel appears to be a combination of them both (in my eyes) and had legs that are down right green.

OK, here goes, I have a most interesting tale to spin, could be long, but you know me, smiling.

A have reiterate some things which I have already spoken about, to set this scene. I am pretty excited about some stuff right now and when I have more birds, which should be displaying this yellow shank and feet, I will be even more stoked. At this point in time, I am still pretty fond of my blues, which do not have the Standard of Perfection noted yellow genes in leg and foot, they are very beautiful and wonderful. So much thought is going to be going into things that I do.

We lived in Maple Ridge, back on the coast of B.C. for most of our married life. We moved to our new home area in June of 2010 which is just northeast of Enderby in B.C. (can't believe it has been one and one half years already, time really does fly when one is having fun, and yep, I really am).

The fall before we moved away, I attained a trio of black cochins, the rooster had taken champion awards, one hen had taken an award and the third had not. The third hen had some red feather leakage on her hackles and threw chicks that had this bit of brown showing up on them.

If my memory serves me correctly, the one black cochin rooster and the hen, which had taken the awards had come from a black to black mating, there was a chance that they could be related, but more than likely came from different hens, but the same father. The black that had the red leakage on the hackles was not from this breeder, it was a different line. Wondering where the red leakage came from? Does true black to true black ever result in red leakage? I don’t know the answer to that...does anyone? Please elaborate if you know the answer to this, I am listening....

I had raised a fair number of chicks from this trio but never kept any of them. At that time, I had my trio of blue cochins. They were kept separately, but side by side. There was a jim dandy fence that separated the two clans.

The black rooster did not like the blue at all and was very aggressive towards the blue through the fence. One day, that cranky dude must have really been pissed at the blue and took it upon himself to fly over a very tall fence (cochins are not a bird of flight, that is just not there way) and beat the crap out of the blue, he almost died....well, actually, thought he was dead, as he was huddled up in a corner in his roost. But saved him, cleaned him up, covered in blood and he was as good as new after his shock recovery. He was lethargic for so long, think he lost too much blood, but a couple of hours, back to his happy, lovely self.

I knew that we had an imminent move coming (this was late spring) and I also knew that I would not have room for "just one more pen" to keep them separated. I sold the black trio, sighing, wish I hadn't, but that is hindsight. I do not have record of where they went. Things were in trauma state with the preparation of a very big move, and some things were not properly taken care of...I am a record keeper, but sometimes, things just don't happen.

I had raised chicks from this trio, as I said. A dear friend of my Husband, whom he has known since they were in grade school had fallen in love with my cochins and wanted some to have on his property. His Wife agreed, she liked them too (I told them that once they got chickens they would be very addicted, neither believed me, but you should see them this day, smiling that big smile, they got some very cool chickens, by the way).

So I chose a couple of pullets for him. A black and a white one and those they took home. Well, they liked the breed so much they came and I have them a pair, a splash cockerel and another black pullet. The cockerel and black pullet are no longer on their farm, that pair was given to a charity farm in the valley, which probably does not have the black hen any more, but I will be asking this gal if she does. Dont' think she is on this forum, so I have to ask elsewhere.

Our friends have taken wonderful care of the birds and have other beautiful ones too. I have seen these two gals when we visit our friends and they have always looked so nice. Even being on the Lower Mainland, that wet rainforest, the white gal always looked oh so white.

The past days I was thinking a whole lot about the yellow genetics, think this is consuming me as I learn and learn -- this is me -- I get fixated on things and must, well, just fixate...

I was thinking about the cochins that I had given to our friends, I was thinking about the trio of black cochins I had that had those yellow legs. I clearly recall, from those cobwebs of my mind that they, all three of them, had yellow legs. I never looked at the bottoms of their feet -- why would I? That would be just weird. I clearly recall thinking how odd the yellow shanks and feet looked, I could see the yellow feet and toes that showed through the black feathers on the outside toes. Really thought it looked weird. I thought it looked so weird that I took pictures of those weird, yellow feet. Should try and dig them up, that would actually be pointless. These were show birds and would have had the requirement of the black to have yellow shanks and soles of feet to take any winning recognition at poultry shows. Oh well.

Then I got to further thinking about the yellow shanks and soles of feet -- did I mention I become consumed with thinking of certain things like I am (yes, it drives me nuts!!).

I started to remember the progeny of those black cochins with yellow legs – and I remembered – yes, I actually remembered, that our friends had (now hens, they would be 1.5 years old now) three of the progeny of these birds. Chances are, yes, high stakes, that these three hens would have the yellow shanks and yellow soles that I know I require to bring into my line here, to eventually had cochins with the Standard of Perfection coloured shanks and feet bottoms.

These people are our best friends – we don’t see them as we used to (we used to go for dinner, back in the day, once a month, we called ourselves the Once a Month Club members, smiling). We have visited many different restaurants through those wonderful days of travel to a different restaurant, once a month, sigh....those were the days, smiling.

Best friends never stop being best friends, doesn’t matter, if you are true best friends, you have them for life, they are lifers, smiling again. I knew that if I called upon our friends, that they would come to my side, without a moment of hesitation. So I emailed the male gender, he passed this task that I asked on to his Wife and she complied.

I emailed asked if she would go out and look at the shanks and feet soles of her cochins that came from me. She reported back that yes, the soles were yellow. I asked her if she could look again and take a picture, that which she did. Those feet are yellow as the days are now short. She sent me two pictures. She only has the two now, as mentioned, but wow, yellow....look at the pictures she sent. The black cochin only her foot bottom is showing, but it is correct colour and I know, positively that her shanks would be yellow too, well pretty positive, as genetics go. The white, well, just look at the picture, pretty yellow soles and shanks too.

So, I told my friend of what my intention was and she got pretty excited. I asked her that if she didn’t have infinity or great need or love to keep these birds, that I would be happy to buy them back from her. She responded that she did not, and that I could have them back if I wanted. What a bonus, so that is in the making for surely. This was a good day. Following are the two pictures that she so lovingly sent, out on a Friday night taking pictures of birds’ legs and feet, imagine that, smiling.

Clearly these two hens that our friends have, are daughters of the black cochin rooster, who was a champion show winner and I will have his genes to work with in my cochin flock here. Who wudda thunk, nigh unto two years later, that I could still have his specific genes in my gene pool, an amazing thing to me, and it makes me smile...that big smile...
Enjoy the pictures and have that most beautiful day, CynthiaM.

This is the white cochin shank and sole of feet

Picture #1



This is her black cochin sole of feet

Picture #2



I was looking through some pictures taken of the progeny of the black cochins when they were two weeks old. This was the chick that I believe came from the mating of the black cochin that mated with the black cochin hen that had the red feather leakage on her hackle feathers, very different shade of black than the other nestmates.

The black cochin chick even looked a little brown just after hatching, taken December 29, 2009, I did not keep any of the black cochin youngsters that had this red feather leakage and have never since encountered that. It only came when I had incubated eggs from the black trio, I presume that the brown looking chick came from the red feather leakaged hen.

Picture #3



The picture of the black cochin chick that displayed as brownish was taken January 6, 2010.

Picture #4



This is another shot of one of the black offspring leaking red, there was two in that hatch, one was far more “brown” looking than the other

Picture #5



This is what the black cochin chick looked like, same age, clearly the red leakage did not come through on this chick

Picture #6



This is what the black cochin trio looked like, taken November 20, 2009

Picture #7



This is a picture of the white cochin hen that I will be getting from my friend. Hatched December 19, 2009, the picture taken March 20, 2010

Picture #8



This is when the pullet (well, not sure, there was a splash cockerel that looked similar, until the coyote took him away), when she was younger, very pretty up again the colour of the greens and browns. Taken February 4, 2010

Picture #9



The, well, we`ll call them splash pullet and the cockerel, taken April 29, 2010 (cockerel gone, coyote meal, he was a wanderer).

Picture #10



A look at the splash at a young age, I am not sure if it was the cockerel or pullet, can`t remember, but due to the fact that it took so long to feather out, and I mean a long time, I would say it was that cockerel.

Picture #11
 


Another shot of the splash

Picture #12



This youngster had displayed two dark spots on the body, only two.

Picture #13



Picture #14

[quote="snaphu"It's cold and sunny here -2°C.... had to put out the heated waterers!
[/quote]

And you told me you would NEVER become addicted to chickens, smiling, only dedicated chicken lovers would go to the extent of having the heated waters, smiling again, good day, Sue, CynthiaM.

Coopslave, I liked that you put those pictures here for us to see and spent time on the description. Very pretty pullet, by the way, have that wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Sounds like you are well on your way, getting these birds back. Yellow legs are not far away now!

The pictures of the splash, or white bird that is just becoming feathered shows some vulture hocks as does the bird in the front with the picture of the two whites. Just something to be aware of.

I look forward to lots of pictures of yellow legged chicks in the spring!

Coopslave, thank you for speaking to the vulture hock issue. I have taken a few minutes to number the pictures (you have taught me something today, and that pictures should be numbered, so if comments are made, the commenter can speak to the number of the picture to help ascertain what is being spoken of).

I think that you were referring to the picture of the two "white" birds standing side by side. The bird on the right was the cockerel, he was the one to coyote bait.

I would like you to speak a little deeper about what you are seeing that would suspect vulture hocks. I have checked my cochins and none appear to have this, I know it was brought up before when another forum member had silver laced cochins and they had vulture hocks, so I have done a little studying on it and looked at pictures.

I have found with the cochin breed, most chicks have very long feathers on the hocks, they look like what I think vulture hock is. But I think that is just the way that the feathers grow, I don't think that it results in vulture hocks, but not totally sure of that. ALL of the young cochins (unless they have little leg feathering, which I have only seen a couple display this), appear to get those very fluffy feathers on the tops of the shanks, hocks...

I would really appreciate it if you would take some time and relook at the pictures and tell me better which pictures you think that there may be a possibility of that issue. I would appreciate it for sure. Yep, hope to get some more yellow-legged birds happening here, have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Picture #11 & 12 are the ones that caught my eye first and I went back and looked at the others. It was the shape and texture of the feather that made me think vulture hock. You handled the birds and saw them in real life, it you don't think they had it then they didn't. I was just mentioning what it appeared to be to me in those pictures.

coopslave wrote:Picture #11 & 12 are the ones that caught my eye first and I went back and looked at the others. It was the shape and texture of the feather that made me think vulture hock. You handled the birds and saw them in real life, it you don't think they had it then they didn't. I was just mentioning what it appeared to be to me in those pictures.

Ah, thank you. Those two pictures were the ones that I am pretty sure were the cockerel. He was the one that went for coyote dinner, so I can't even check. Could be a high probability of that vulture hock, but who knows. Wish I still had him and I could check, if he did, then I would know now first hand how this feels/looks. Seems to me that vulture hock is stiff feathers protruding from the hock downwards, it would be definitely a very noticeable thing, in the tactile sense. On the other hand, it could be just how some chicks get very heavy and fast feathering on the hocks. I am always open minded about things and need to know. I will always check for that vulture hock thing, my mind has been opened about so many things, learning from my forum friends, and I do so love that thing!! Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Cynthia, I also see vulture hocks on picture 9, 11, and 12. They are the long straight feathers that extend at a 45 degree angle from the hock toward the ground. That area should be feathered by light cochin fluff and not long hard-shafted feathers.

I have had vulture hocks in Cochins before. They are visible from an early age, often have various degrees of stiffness and never seem to change as the bird grows. They are very common in Cochins.

I imagine they are purely an appearance thing and do not hurt the existance of the bird, but they are a disqualification at shows.

Sue

Let me add another thing I have learned. A good Cochin has a BIG head. I have both show and hatchery cochins here. I let them run together during the winter without worry that I won't be able to tell them apart because come spring the big cochins with the huge heads really stand out from the small cochins with the pin heads.

Sue

CynthiaM wrote:snippet --> ...I had raised chicks from this trio, as I said. A dear friend of my Husband, whom he has known since they were in grade school had fallen in love with my cochins and wanted some to have on his property. His Wife agreed, she liked them too

I’m the wife that now own the cochins that have “the yellow shanks and soles of feet” … and who took the pictures

the following are photos taken in July 2010, when they were 6 mths. old...
this is the rooster with black hen


2 hens and the roo

Cynthia I'm really happy for you! Your own lovely cochins returning home for you to work with, enjoy and produce some more beautiful birds. I love the Cochins too, so it is wonderful news to know you have what you need to hatch more SOP correct Cochin chicks for yourself and for others to enjoy.
Its so important to keep good quality little flocks in our backyards with their own special mix of genetics.

Sue, owner of the Icelandic birds, (I'll probably refer to you as that, as we now have two Sue's on our forum, smiling that big smile). Thank you for posting the pictures of the birds. I am very pleased with what I see .

The rooster that you have shown a picture of is a PERFECT example of how the red can leak through from blue to blue matings. I am now of the belief that the splash rooster was one of the progeny of my original blue cochin rooster, I had incubated those eggs along with the eggs of the show black cochins. There was never any mating of the blacks with the blues, I doubt very much that the blacks would have thrown this red leakage, as far as I think anyways.

I retired that original blue cochin rooster, as he was throwing the red feather leakage to his sons. It never has shown up on any of the hens (no clue how that genetic thing works, anyone care to comment? would love to hear), but it would show up now and then with his sons. It was clear to see at about 16 weeks old, which blue offspring of his would show the red feather leakage. The dark blue laced ones never did show the red feather leakage (perhaps it is a gene hiding to surface, again, no clue about the genetic thing here), but the ones that were really light blue laced feathers did, and the splash did too.

My Sister fell in love with one of the splash cockerels that had the red feather gene leaking through and she wanted this little dude badly. I had given her some other cockerels to grow out for the dinner table, but she wound up not doing that and kept them...she still has those cross-bred roosters (yes, they are now roosters) and they free range without hens, just the roosters. They are wild as wild can be and take good care of themselves and all the bugs on her farm. They roost high at night in her barn and for the most part, I would say, are pretty safe from ground predators. She used to call this splash cochin rooster her party rooster because of all the colours over his body (red, grey, white). Sadly he eventually met a death and is no longer, but the others are going strong. One of the roosters that she has is a gold laced wyandotte crossed with blue cochin, a very beautiful dude, pretty much black all over, with a lovely rose comb...lots of feathers.

Those two pictures of the pullets taken when they were 6 months old (now 1.5 year old hens), look very nice and I can't wait for them to come "home", smiling. I am very happy that you are going to help me out here, Sue (with the Icelandic birds), and help me to work to bring cochins with yellow legs more commonplace. This is a good thing, and my thanks to you. Have that wonderful and beautiful day, CynthiaM.

KathyS, thank you too for those kind words

CynthiaM did all the roosters have leakage in the shoulders or were some in the neck and saddle.
The shoulder leakage could be Mahogany at play (Mh). It extends the Red and restricts the distribution of Black. I dont have much experience with it, I think it may also remove black from the breast, but I know it gives red on the shoulders, back and wingbows a deep dark red colour in roostes. Tara Lee may know more about it.

I ment to add this is a perfect example of why I like to have my birds 'out there' with people I know and trust. I think it is so important for a breeder to have some spread around with other people incase they run into a wall or a predator wreaks some havoc. When you are working on a line of your own things don't always go right and it is nice to be able to back track if you need too. Because CynthiaM knew people she had given some birds to she is able to re evaluate her program and get back on track again. A very important thing I think.

coopslave wrote:CynthiaM did all the roosters have leakage in the shoulders or were some in the neck and saddle.
The shoulder leakage could be Mahogany at play (Mh). It extends the Red and restricts the distribution of Black. I dont have much experience with it, I think it may also remove black from the breast, but I know it gives red on the shoulders, back and wingbows a deep dark red colour in roostes. Tara Lee may know more about it.

I ment to add this is a perfect example of why I like to have my birds 'out there' with people I know and trust. I think it is so important for a breeder to have some spread around with other people incase they run into a wall or a predator wreaks some havoc. When you are working on a line of your own things don't always go right and it is nice to be able to back track if you need too. Because CynthiaM knew people she had given some birds to she is able to re evaluate her program and get back on track again. A very important thing I think.

I have always done this with my dogs and rabbits and sharing my stock always has has positive results for me. Disease, genetic issues and predators often give your progress a turn for the worse. To be able to recoup something you have lost couldmean the difference between moving forward with your breeding program and your progress being pushed back many years.

Sue

CynthiaM wrote:Sue, owner of the Icelandic birds, (I'll probably refer to you as that, as we now have two Sue's on our forum, smiling that big smile). Thank you for posting the pictures of the birds. I am very pleased with what I see

I can be "Viking Sue"

CynthiaM wrote:Those two pictures of the pullets taken when they were 6 months old (now 1.5 year old hens), look very nice and I can't wait for them to come "home", smiling. I am very happy that you are going to help me out here, Sue (with the Icelandic birds), and help me to work to bring cochins with yellow legs more commonplace. This is a good thing, and my thanks to you. Have that wonderful and beautiful day, CynthiaM.

I'm SOOO happy to be able to help you with this cochin project! I'm not sure if it matters at this point, but the hatching dates you gave us was for the black cochins - Jan.11, 2010, and for the white cochin and the splash rooster - January 29th, 2010.

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Viking Sue! Yikes, I feel so insignificant.

You can call me SkippySue.

Sue

HigginsRAT wrote:Yer friend scares me CynthiaM... hee hee... And I don't often scare easy...whimper

...AND...

Schipperkesue wrote:Viking Sue! Yikes, I feel so insignificant.

You can call me SkippySue.

nice to meet you "SkippySue" and everyone here!