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Blue cochin (large fowl) owners, pictures added, pic HEAVY

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CynthiaM

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I wonder how many of my forum friends have blue cochins of the large fowl breed. And I am also wondering if any of you have looked closely at the shanks and soles of the feet of your blues.....do they have yellow soles, yellow shanks, willow shanks? I am on a search for knowledge and now need to know things. If you so choose to not speak here, there is always the email function to correspond with.

Over the next couple of days, when I can get some good light, I am going to look very, very closely at the actual colour of my blue cochins' shanks and soles of feet. I get the feeling that the leg colour is not correct on my blues and I will need to introduce birds that have yellow legs to work on improvement. According to the American Standard of Perfection, the blue cochin males should have yellow legs, yellow soles, the female blue cochin should have yellow to dusky yellow shanks, yellow feet bottoms, yellow preferred over dusky yellow.

In the ASOP I have read the disqualifications for the blue cochin and there is nothing about shank and feet colour being a disqualification. As opposed to the black cochin, which according to the ASOF, shanks other than yellow or black shading into yellow, and bottoms of feet showing complete absence of white, is a disqualification.

There has been conflict with what I have been reading about the colour of the shanks and feet as to the correct colour, which has caused concern and I am in need of further knowledge. Speak to me. I may be opening a huge can of worms, but I feel, if only for myself, I need to open it, as large as it may be.....

In this thread I have linked to, pay close attention to the bold and italicized data I have submitted, which came from another forum, it is post #5, mine

(see post http://wcps.canadian-forum.com/t2239-cochin-lovers-have-a-look?highlight=cochin)

Sometimes it is hard to go to another thread, so I have taken the information that I had in another thread and put it below in italicized and bold. This was taken from a comment on a cochin breeder in Australia. What is being said in this thread about leg colour of black and blue cochins is slightly different than what the ASOP says about leg colour on the black and blue. Thoughts that their standard may be different than ours. This has caused conflict again, as it is contradictory to what the ASOP says about the colours. Coopslave indicated that perhaps the Australian standard may be different than the American, which to me is crazy. But here goes, some information from an Australian poultry forum.

"The picture of the blue Cochin looks great. Notice the legs, on my computer they appear to be yellow, the standard calls for blue legs and feet with yellow pads. If we aren’t aware of this fact we could waste years trying to get them back!

I read somewhere, where someone got hold of some Jersey Giants. Not knowing the standard called for black legs and feet with yellow pads. They culled all the birds with black legs and kept the yellow-legged ones. The Jersey Giant was lost.

I am far from being an expert but we must all be aware of the standard if we intend to breed rare breeds. It would be a disaster if our ignorance destroyed the years of breeding that others before us have done.

I suppose this leads us back to the idea of some kind of mentoring program (wrong post). Here at least it should be a mentoring of the standard!

The photo for the previous post has been removed. At the time I felt it should be made clear to new breeders of Cochin that the standards called for the black and blue varieties to have Black-Dusky yellow or lizard or Blue- legs and feet blue with yellow tinge in pads.
"[i]

My goal is not to have the perfect bird, with perfectly coloured shanks and feet, but I would like to try to get something as close to what things should be as I can, this will take time....

So blue cochin owners. Take some time, when you can find the time, and please look at the birds closely and report what you find. I think this is a good thing, let's work together....if you have yellow legged blues and yellow soles of feet (absence of white), I really want to hear from you, smiling...have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.

Yes, I think I am driving myself nuts here, Very Happy Shocked



Last edited by CynthiaM on Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:25 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : too add some text, in bold from another post)

coopslave

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CynthiaM I hope some people help you with your quest for the perfect legs! Laughing
Don`t worry, you`ll get there.

Schipperkesue

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I will check my blues tonight, Cynthia.

HigginsRAT


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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/

fuzzylittlefriend

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My splash hen ( who was supposed to be blue but we all know how that works) has yellow feet and more on the willowy side legs. They white and blacks all have yellow feet as well.

Anne

http://pauluzzifamilypoultry.webs.com/

Schipperkesue

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Well Cynthia, I had a look at their feet. They have black shanks and pink feet but I am willing to bet they will change as they grow. I will keep you posted.

Their dad has yellow foot-bottoms but I have no idea about the rest because the whole shank and top of toe is too heavily feathered.

The offer still stands, they are yours free if you want them. I have had people very generous with me and I need to pass the favor on.

Sue

CynthiaM

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Schipperkesue wrote:Well Cynthia, I had a look at their feet. They have black shanks and pink feet but I am willing to bet they will change as they grow. I will keep you posted.

Their dad has yellow foot-bottoms but I have no idea about the rest because the whole shank and top of toe is too heavily feathered.

The offer still stands, they are yours free if you want them. I have had people very generous with me and I need to pass the favor on.

Sue

Hmmm....it would appear from my memory banks, that the majority of my blues have that black shanks and pink feet, and oh the pink/reddish tinge on the feet is, in my opinion, pretty darn pretty, the contrast. But hey, hold it, that is the wrong colour, smiling still, I have not yet had a chance to really and totally examine the blues shanks and soles of feet, yep, feathers are indeed something that get in the way.

Honestly Sue, I don't think that colour will change as they mature, really, just don't think it is in the cards, genetics, genetics. Free, well, free would be lovely, but you are a very long ways from this gal here... Very Happy . Yes I know about passing it forward, done that, been there, and will always to do that thing, it is all about karma and she is a beautiful gal...

The daddy has yellow soles, well that would be a step, is the daddy a blue? Don't think I quite caught that..I understand very little about genetics, but if the soles are yellow, that would say that he has at least 1/2 of what is needed, wondering if this is a correct thought patten...oh dear, such things we need to do, such things we need to understand, such things are such things, beautiful days to us all, CynthiaM.

Sue, meant to mention, I would never take something for free, I would have to do something in return for that....one day, some place, the gift would be returned. I would only consider something as a gift, and all gifts, in my eyes, will one day have the memory of that gift passed forward or returned.

CynthiaM

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fuzzylittlefriend wrote:My splash hen ( who was supposed to be blue but we all know how that works) has yellow feet and more on the willowy side legs. They white and blacks all have yellow feet as well.

Anne

In remembering, any splash that has ever been begat by my blues has had that willow shaded leg, I would actually border it greyish though, so not even yet right. I am pretty sure that those splash had yellow soles, if memory serves. Beautiful day, CynthiaM.

fuzzylittlefriend

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Ok I picked her up and had a better look this afternoon. Grey leg and pinkish soles with a slight yellow tinge to them. The black pulley and the two whites have sole as yellow as corn kernels!

http://pauluzzifamilypoultry.webs.com/

CynthiaM

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Schipperkesue wrote:Well Cynthia, I had a look at their feet. They have black shanks and pink feet but I am willing to bet they will change as they grow. I will keep you posted.

Their dad has yellow foot-bottoms but I have no idea about the rest because the whole shank and top of toe is too heavily feathered.
Sue

The daddy of these chicks would have yellow legs and soles, knowing now where he came from. The mamma, wonder if she had any yellow soles or yellow legs. Anyways, the chicks will have at least one gene for the yellow stuff, as far as my understanding goes. You know I wan'em, I'm on an agenda on how to get therm here, smiling. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM

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fuzzylittlefriend wrote:Ok I picked her up and had a better look this afternoon. Grey leg and pinkish soles with a slight yellow tinge to them. The black pulley and the two whites have sole as yellow as corn kernels!

thanks, Anne for doing that. Is the two whites pullets as well? Good that you have that yellow that we are speaking about, such a new can of worms here I have opened, but all a good thing, Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

fuzzylittlefriend

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Yes they are all pullets. Same age as the black one I brought to nationals. One of the white ones is a lot smaller then the other 3 so not sure what happened there!

http://pauluzzifamilypoultry.webs.com/

CynthiaM

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Please note that I have added some information to the first post that I made in this thread, it is in black bold and some typing of my own. Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

HigginsRAT


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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Schipperkesue

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Hey Rat Ranch, you say:

"Be aware tho, you are not to judge shank colour until the chickens are AT LEAST six weeks old...at the very least. Often a nice girl is growing up and BANG her shank colour goes from yellow to willow...yup, so there is a time issue on expression here to consider."

Will the reverse happen? Will Willow or Grey or any other kind of leg turn yellow as the birds mature?

Sue

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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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HigginsRAT


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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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CynthiaM

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HigginsRAT wrote:Heel low:
Here yah go...
Posted on CFI, compliments of Bill Hopkins
http://www.genetics.org/content/20/6/529.full.pdf
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Wow, I tried to look at that pdf file, but it made me feel so dizzy I could't read any more than a few paragaphs, Shocked , no clue what was up with that!! Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM

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HigginsRAT wrote:Heel low:
Keep in mind, even if the Cochin is say White, the best whites are made on Black birds (black pigments are easier to make white than reds which tend to leak). Wanting a Blue Cochin with yellow legs as this thread suggests may take a bit of breeding, but you now got the tools to understand how to do it. If you can purchase a Black, Splash, or Blue (blue would be good!) with yellow legs...bonus.

A couple of years ago I had a black cochin trio. The rooster had taken an award, as well as one of the hens, at a poultry show in the Lower Mainland. The second hen did not, she had some red leakage in her hackles.

I know this is off the topic of what I originally spoke about. I kept that trio for some time, and then (I have spoke of this before) could no longer keep the rooster, I had extreme conflict with him and my blue rooster (the black flew over a tall fence to beat him up, badly....). I was very new to any intention of desire to breed birds in a bigger way, so sold that trio to a person. I am kicking my butt to this day, as those birds were beautiful and they all had yellow shanks and feet, I clearly remember this, as I thought it looked ugly, compared to the greyish shade of my blues. Sigh....I had those genetics then, and wish I had them now. I do not have the information any longer about where the birds went, but someone got a good deal, smiling.

Why I am mentioning this is because of those birds I hatched out some chicks, not many, as I had them for such a short time, but there was a pure white hatch from that, a cockerel. He was white as the driven snow, but on his skin on his body he had a blue spot (still have the pictures of him as a baby). I believe that this is a mutant that is called a sport? I have not a clue more about the genetics of this, but thought I read that blacks will sometimes throw a mutant white called sport. He got eaten by a coyote. The only one in my flock ever to have a canine take the life, I watched that poor dude being carried away, me running as fast as I could to try and help him to not reach death. But I could not run as fast as that canine, and he was gone, gone, gone...have a most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

CynthiaM

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Phew, back from recovering from a whole bunch of reading and copying and pasting, smiling. Tara, I have taken the things that you have been teaching me (and hopefully others too) and have created a word file of the massive amount of information I have been gathering about things....well, things...you know, the thread on the smut on feathers and this topic of yellow legs. If you do not mind, I have done this, so I can read and read and read and read some more. This is how I learn, severe repetition.

You have spoken so much of the bowl of soup, light and dark broth, excellent examples (in the smut thread) and then over and over and over I have read about yellow legs on hens. These are repetition that have sunk deep into the cobwebs of my mind and will stay. But I still need to re-read things many times to get the gist(s) of things.

In this thread you mentioned to me that perhaps I should skip one part (about the Punnett square) and go to the second part. I did not heed your warning and read through that "forbidden", smiling again, part of the post. I like to read and learn, as so many of us do, and I felt compelled to read it anyways, yep, got through it with a little more understanding.

I have many times looked at the Punnett square and tried it out, and yes, I have also dabbled a bit in the chicken calculator (Kippen jungle, I believe it was termed, was that that author? can't remember, without revisiting that). I certainly got lost in the jungle there with the calculator, too many things not understood. But I am thinking with lots of repetition, I will eventually "get" things.

Just wanted to thank you again for spending, the enormous amount of time, clearly you have done this, to respond in these posts to my plea. I know you have helped me to a degree, which I cannot even begin to express, and again, helping others. Thanks, you have shined through. For now, I think that I had best leave this thread alone, whilst I do more studying and try to get good and much deeper understanding. But fully understand that I am appreciative, do have that most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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CynthiaM

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Tara, and if you don't think this information about the pooches won't go into my word document about genetics, think again Cool . It is going in there, to re-read and re-read.

How totally cool and so most interesting about the hiding little "e"s' you speak about. Totally interesting and am enthralled to read this stuff. I am thinking by the length of your speaking to us, that you have the capacity to type at a great speed (I too have that skill, typing as quickly as the tongue can muster a word, a wonderful skill that I am very proud of). Well, maybe you don't, then even more kudos to you to take such time to express in length the words you say, that is a great and wonderful thing. Again, thank you for helping out, we can listen or we can't. Personally, I am listening, smiling that big smile.

A question about red....this is not pertaining to canine species though.

I had a blue rooster, my original dude, most beautiful and big, who had some red leakage on his hackle feathers. Understanding after some time about this red leakage, I knew that he was not a good object for using in the breeding pool, if I wanted to achieve nicer blues. I retired him to a girlfriend, along with two girls. She loved this dude and only wanted him for his beauty and his personality, which would make your mouth drop, he was a soul full of love and loved the human kind and was gentle to his girls.

I grew out a few of his offspring cockerels and chose the nicest of these fellows to keep. The existing rooster now at my home is one of his sons. He is very dark, with extremely nice lacing and I am hoping he is a nice choice to keep. (working on hens with yellow legs isn't going to work with him, I know, but that is coming up in the future.....). This is going to be a very long process to eventually get where I want to be with cochins, smiling.

Some may think incest, but he is with his mother(s) (who knows which one is the mother of this fellow). Knowing that the pullet gets genes from the rooster and cockerels gets genes from the hen, I am wondering how much of a chance will be that any of the progeny of the blue rooster will have this red feather leakage.....any tips on how that genetic works? I would be interested in listening to this.

Again, thank you Tara for teaching, and you do do it so well, I must add (I am still thinking about that light and dark soup broth example). You help to clarify things that are very daunting to a novice about genetics. Do go and have a wonderful and great day, CynthiaM.

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Last edited by HigginsRAT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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happychicks

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Am I right in assuming that the leg colour genetics works the same in all breeds? I have a yellow legged brown leghorn roo and a white legged one. The hen is yellow legged. So if I cross the yellow legged roo to the yellow legged pullet, then I should watch to see if I get 100% yellow legs or some of both. Correct? If all his offspring have yellow legs then I'm safe to use him as my breeder for building a flock of yellow legged light brown leghorns? The white legged guy then is only a backup plan for if the yellow legged guy kicks the bucket or something.

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