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Why does green matter?

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1 Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:47 pm

Arcticsun

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I dont understand what the obsession with green is. Why do black birds need a GREEN sheen vs a blue or purple sheen. I have had birds with black areas and they had blue/purple sheen to them and it was lovely.

There must be a reason why green is the prefered sheen colour for black. Does anyone know what that is or why?

2 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:57 pm

uno

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And here I thought this was an environmental question. Got all fired up to kick some dirt. Bummed out now.

I think green Sheen is boring. I like purple. Way fancier.

3 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Guest


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I was just thinking about that today. All I've been able to find out is that sometimes there is a relationship between color and other traits or functions. Can't seem to find any thing more than that yet. I do have a black EE with green, blue, and purple sheen. He throws about 1 in 10 with a bad leg and the odd twisted beak but I can't pin it on the sheen.

4 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:43 pm

coopslave

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I do believe a black bird with a green sheen carries no red enhancers. The purple sheen shows red in there even if it does not show as red in the feathers.

This is what I just read in my colour genetics book "black with beetle green sheen is desired, This sheen is affected by the presence of additional black enhancers and the structure of the feather. The presence of Autosomal Red can give a violet lustre on the shoulders its absence a green lustre."

I hope that helps a bit.

5 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:54 pm

Arcticsun

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BUT, so way if it has a red factor in it?

If there was a link to a deleterious gene associated with the purple/blue shees I would definitely understand. If it is just a case of knowing that the bird does not carry a red factor, then I could understand how for some birds you would want a green sheen, but for other birds there would be no reason for it. Maybe it would even be prefered.

6 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:58 pm

coopslave

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It may have to do with the red actually pushing through on a black bird like it does sometimes. You know how people have been speaking about he bleeding in the hackle and saddle that they are getting sometimes.
If you have birds with green sheen all over the body that should be something you don't have to worry about.
Did that sort of answer your question?

7 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:08 pm

Arcticsun

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It does make sence if you want to make sure it doesnt bleed though. If the challenge is to breed a black bird with no other colour and a blue/purple sheen, well then....

NOt to be difficult, but I thought that there might be a bigger reason than the bleeding colour issue.
So eally it comes down to if it has a green sheen then it is defintiely as black as it can be.

8 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:10 pm

coopslave

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Thought I would post a couple of birds that have great, green sheen. (just to show them off!)

This australorp hen was my hubbies favourite bird in Australia. I was pretty partial to her as well. She was a great layer and a great broody and a MASSIVE bird.
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This is the sweet black amercauna pullet I have now.
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Last edited by coopslave on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

9 Re: Why does green matter? on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:15 pm

coopslave

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Arcticsun wrote:It does make sence if you want to make sure it doesnt bleed though. If the challenge is to breed a black bird with no other colour and a blue/purple sheen, well then....

NOt to be difficult, but I thought that there might be a bigger reason than the bleeding colour issue.
So eally it comes down to if it has a green sheen then it is defintiely as black as it can be.

I know when you get the bleeding the bird is lacking some of the black enhancers it needs. If it has autosomal red (or is an ER allele) as well as lacking the enhancers I think you have big trouble on your hands. I do believe there are a lot of enhancers needed to make a black bird totally black.
Your questions are starting to get beyond the little bit of knowledge I have, I hope someone else jumps in and answers your questions better than I have.

10 Re: Why does green matter? on Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:59 am

Fowler

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Always loved the green sheen when I had Australorps.

Are there even many breeds where the purple is called for? I think Cornish is one.

11 Re: Why does green matter? on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:53 am

Dan Smith


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Heh Shannon, I don't think that the answer is that complicated. It is because those birds are environmentally minded.

12 Re: Why does green matter? on Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:17 am

Arcticsun

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lol Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

13 green sheen on Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:59 pm

jocelyn


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Birds with a purple sheen may have mahogany, and mahogany is a eumelanin restrictor, making it harder to get an all black bird.
They tend to get red shoulders and hackles, or silver shoulders, if silver based. Without mahogany, the shoulders stay black, and the hackles are less likely to leak red or silver. Purple sheened birds can be all black, it just takes more melanizers.

14 Re: Why does green matter? on Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:32 am

CynthiaM

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coopslave wrote:I do believe a black bird with a green sheen carries no red enhancers. The purple sheen shows red in there even if it does not show as red in the feathers.

This is what I just read in my colour genetics book "black with beetle green sheen is desired, This sheen is affected by the presence of additional black enhancers and the structure of the feather. The presence of Autosomal Red can give a violet lustre on the shoulders its absence a green lustre."

I hope that helps a bit

coopslave wrote:It may have to do with the red actually pushing through on a black bird like it does sometimes.  You know how people have been speaking about he bleeding in the hackle and saddle that they are getting sometimes.
If you have birds with green sheen all over the body that should be something you don't have to worry about.
Did that sort of answer your question?

Going back into some old posts (I can't find some other good ones about the green sheen and purple sheen on black birds) , I am paying closer attention to the sheen colour of my black cochins. And..I am wondering too, if some of my black hens that came from a blue to black or blue to blue mating (or even splash) may have given the purple sheen to some of my black cochins, if I have any present, just have never really took a great note of this before.  I do not about 3 years ago I had issues with the autosomal red leakage and don't have it now in my blues, but maybe it is hiding in the black and I need to get rid of any black hens with any purple tinge.  This is a rather confusing subject, but just one more thing to think about, smiling.  Have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.

15 Re: Why does green matter? on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:27 am

heda gobbler

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Fascinating though, even though I don't have any black birds!

Nice to see some dear old names on this thread.

http://www.tatlayokofold.com

16 Re: Why does green matter? on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:06 am

Alyssa Patterson

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The purple sheen can also come from feeding way to much corn I thought.

http://www.riverbendheritagepoultry.com

17 Re: Why does green matter? on Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:56 am

CynthiaM

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Dang, almost forgot about this thread, glad it came up again. Yes....so I have been looking closely at my flock of cochins these past few days. I have worked hard to not have any of my BLUE cochins have autosomal red leakage. I think I got that, but still wonder if it is hiding and is hiding also in the blacks. I am confused, but that is OK, trying to sort through this stuff. Last year I used an unrelated male black cochin, a magnificent dude, but I thought that I would use him for the season and then go back to my two year old blue rooster. I did. I sold the black rooster and two of the nice black females from last years hatching. They were nice. This year, the blue dude is covering the black and blue girls. I would like to keep one of the blacks from this year's breedings, probably a black rooster, for sure, if any of the males are of a high enough standard. He will be the breeder for the 2016 year and I hope that he brings lovely lacing. I am so trying to understand how to breed nice blues, smiling that big smile. The black rooster I sold did have that beetle green, I don't recall any purple barring on him. I cannot speak to the girls, as I did not pay attention. What I do know is....three cockerels from last year's breeding of the black rooster over the blue and black females has produced three cockerels with purple barring. Blah. There is a pullet that was hatched last year that is black, she does not seem to have any purple feathers. I am back to the drawing board I guess. And not even sure how to draw, but still working on figuring things out. Those three males are going to my chicken kitchen food table, and will make wonderful meals Cool . I have two magnificent black females that are purple free. They are 3 years old now and oh, so lovely...huge heads, and well, lovely, did I mention I think they are lovely.....sure do hope that this 2015 season will bring me some very nice cochins for selection for next year. Alyssa Patterson, I don't think that corn has anything to do with it, as my birds receive very little corn in the scratch, but who knows, maybe is true. Have a beautiful day, CynthiaM

18 Re: Why does green matter? on Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:45 am

IzzyD

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I just learned that feeding corn to my white call ducks can tint the feathers. Interesting.
I don't know much about chickens but would like to try working with some as soon as I get another barn built. I do enjoy reading about these topics as it seems there is a lot to know about the genetics and colouring of them.

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