Gapeworm, Tapeworm and other worm discussion

Hmmm...spent the better part of this morning doing some studying on gapeworm.

It would appear that I have a 20 week old buff orpington cockerel that may be experiencing gapeworm. Don't like to think it, but he has some pretty clear symptoms.

I noticed about a week ago, that this fellow had a bit of a rattly breathing sound, didn't continue to pay much more attention.

I moved the group of 10 young buff orpingtons into their intermediate home, the empty gold laced wyandotte pen the day before yesterday. This is because with all the buckeye cockerels and rooster, with so many dudes, there was a fair amount of squabbling going on. It was time to move the orpingtons to a separate home.

Yesterday, I noticed this fellow still gurgling and he was stretching his neck and opening his mouth.

I have about 50 birds and he is the only one displaying any distress with gurgly breathing and mouth opening thing. I suspect that he has gapeworm issues. The birds are free ranged and there is a whole lotta worms, snails, blue bottle flies, all of which are carriers of this nasty (intermediate hosts from my understanding).

I don't think that he has a respiratory problem, he is the only bird that is displaying any kind of distress.

I have read the most common intervention is safeguard (fenbendazole), no clue what that is, but I am about to find out today and get some.

I really think he needs help.

Some things that I would like to know are:

How long is the treatment period, reapplication, etc.

How does the drug get rid of the worms in the throat? That really perplexes me, how on earth can that work, is it a contact thing?

What is the most effective method of administration of the drug, i.e., read somewhere that a pea sized drop mixed in with some bread, some put in the water, etc., etc. Tim

Should all the birds be treated?

Is there a re-treatment treatment?

The birds have been treated recently for internal and external parasites with the use of a drop of product on their neck, but this particular medication does not destroy gapeworm, is there any negative interaction when two products are used?

Is there any permanent damage done by the nasty gapeworm to the bird?

Think that about covers all the questions that I hope to get an answer for. Some time and elaboration on the part of posters would be very much appreciated.

And....have a most wonderful day, CynthiaM.

Cynthia,

Safeguard you will find is a horse dewormer in a paste form. Might be a tricky dosing with that. I wanna say panacur yes it is another option (same ingredient different name)that comes in a liquid and granules. The liquid might be easier dosing. The clinic in armstong should have the liquid and hopefully dispense it. As for dose that might require some research. Generally after deworming the worms die and the body digests or expells thems. Not really sure how gape worm would go.

Hope this helps a little

Okay here isa dose froma site in the uk

10 to 50 mg per kg ( large range really so must be fairly safe)

repeat dosing 7 to ten days later.

Does havea egg withdrawl 7 days after last dose. Something to consider if you do the whole flock. Its not labeled for use in poultry but is used for these types of worms.

Oh and sbhould not interfere with your other parasite control most likly as its a different drug.

Thank you for posting this, Cynthia.
I also suspected a young rooster might have gapeworm this summer. He was the only one with that rattely breathing, and it was very noticeable. At night I could hear his rough breathing above all the scuffling and re-positioning sounds of the flock settling in for the night.
He ended up dying for some reason; I just found him laying dead out in the run one afternoon. A very rudimentary autopsy was performed by someone completely nexperienced and not really knowing what she was doing or what she was looking for. (me).
But I did inspect the windpipe closely and did not find any sign of worms. I thought they would be quite visible if it was serious enough to cause death. There was also no bits of twine, string or anything I thought might cause breathing problems.
so maybe this particular little roo of mine had some other congenital problem. I guess I will never know.

I'll be watching to see what others might have to contribute to this post, especially treatment of those birds suspected to have these nasty parasites.

CYnthia, your horsey daughters probably have some wormer kicking around. You are only going to need a very tiny squirt of it, seems a shame to buy a whole tube. If they don't have any Safeguared, I do! I will give you a blob or two.

Eprinex will not deal with this? Hmmm.

I have never noticed gapeworm in my birds. Not to say it isn't around. Have you tried to look down the throat and see if it's a physical problem like a piece of spear grass or a burr of some sort?

Call/email if you need wormer...which reminds me, I should dose that little horse. Good luck!

Had gapeworm hit my flock 2 years ago - it ended up in about 1/2 my flock as the infected birds cough up the eggs, swallow again and then they are expelled in the poop. Nasty looking worms for sure! Had 3 birds die and opened up the first one to see if I could figure out what was going on and it wasn't hard to find! A mass of red worms that if you seperate the mass they are Y shaped. I had my vet bring in levamisole as it was one of 2 drugs suggested in the book - The Chicken Health Handbook - the other is thiabendazole. We treated the whole flock and had to do it agin 2 weeks later.

I didn't know that that noise could be a worm. If I hear that I always think it's resporatory. Would Ivomec pour-on work?

What I would and what I have used is either Ivomec injectable 5cc to a gallon of water or Safeguard powder 1 teaspoon per gallon of water, and you should treat all your birds for 3 days. Gapeworm is terrible and with all the water we have had this year there are going to be lots of problems with it, I treat all my birds in the fall with Safeguard after they are locked up and again in the spring with Ivomec before I let them out. Left untreated many will die.

Thank you for the responses. Pops Coops, I am replying in this post to you, thank you for the PM.

I will check and see if my Daughter has either of these products, I know she takes care of the horses very well and worming is part of that. Thank you Uno, but I am sure I have either product here, if I don't, I require this anyways for my medicine cabinet.

Pops Coops, indicating that the birds require the dose for three days. I am to assume that the process should be repeated again in a certain amount of time? Yes? No? Indicate please the time frame.

I will get the product ready for tomorrow morning and I will remove all water except for the medicated liquid.

I also presume that the water should be given fresh each day. I have four coops that will require treatment. The youngsters (two weeks old, 5 cochins and 2 buckeyes) will not require treatment as they are confined to their own little box yet. Correct?

The worm eggs are not transmitted through air I think. Correct?

Does anyone know how the medication kills worms in the throat? I still do not understand that. I understand the death of worms in the gut, but how does this medication affect ones that liquid only passes past. I presume it can be considered a "contact" medication? Please answer if anyone knows. This is a curiosity and trust me, curiosity never got this cat.

Msmall said that when she treated for gapeworm the birds had to be done again in two weeks, but she was using a different drug than the two suggested here.

This is interesting and i hope that my query will help many to be more aware of things that can afflict our chickens. It sounds like it is a nasty worm and may be bad this year. It has been an awfully wet and ichy summer here too. Thank you for the comments, and have a most wonderful rest of today, CynthiaM.

Both of these medications get into the blood stream, they will also kill all worms and lice mites and scaly leg, both are very very effective, I have never treated more than three days from what I understand they also kill the eggs. Gapeworms are very common in wet seasons if you need any more information let me know. Safeguard does come in a liquid 5 cc per gallon shake well, Ivomec injectable is a liquid and it is also 5cc per gallon, Ivomec is the less expensive and can be purchased in larger amounts, if your daughter has or looks after horses she is sure to have on hand, all feed stores should have or be able to get.

Pops I have to dissagree with you on this statement

Both of these medications get into the blood stream, they will also kill all worms and lice mites and scaly leg, both are very very effective, I have never treated more than three days from what I understand they also kill the eggs.

I have used Safeguard on my sheep and horses, it is for INTERNAL paricites only, it does not kill any external ones like lice, mites or scaly leg mights. It should kill the worms in the throat and stomach though Cynthia.
Ivomec is different, the injectable and pour on will do the external and internal paracites, the drench I am not certain about.

my birds all had a respiratory disease that sounds like what you are experiencing. heather said to use tylan, a quite readily available powder at most vets. it worked great!

Tylan is for respitory not for worms or for gapeworms

[quote="Hidden River"]Pops I have to dissagree with you on this statement

Both of these medications get into the blood stream, they will also kill all worms and lice mites and scaly leg, both are very very effective, I have never treated more than three days from what I understand they also kill the eggs.

I have used Safeguard on my sheep and horses, it is for INTERNAL paricites only, it does not kill any external ones like lice, mites or scaly leg mights. It should kill the worms in the throat and stomach though Cynthia.
Ivomec is different, the injectable and pour on will do the external and internal paracites, the drench I am not certain about.[/quote

I agree with you on the Ivomec injectable mixed 5 cc with water per gallon, my vet states that safeguard will do the same, but since we know for a fact that Ivomec does it you should use that.

It was my understanding that ivermectin does not treat gapeworm? But it pretty much takes care of everything else.

Anne

fuzzylittlefriend wrote:It was my understanding that ivermectin does not treat gapeworm? But it pretty much takes care of everything else.

Anne

I was always told that to and that is why a couple years ago I got Safegaurd I know it looks after all worms and Gapeworm. I bought a Hen from an auction and when I got her out of the box her feet were so terrible with leg mites I treated with Safeguard and withing 2 weeks her feet were normal, it was what my vet told me to use.

Ah interesting. Yes ivermectin will do lice/mites and most internal parasites just not of the few wierd and wonderful. Same in the small animal world we go to panacur ( safguard) for things like lung worm that the regular dewormers dont take care of. Always good to keep a rotation anyways to prevent resistence.

Anne

pops coops wrote:Tylan is for respitory not for worms or for gapeworms

yes is is, but im not sure that worms would make a bird sound different, its not in their lungs.

Yes Gapeworm can make them sound like they are gurgling, Tylan is a fantastic drug for getting rid of respiratory problems but remember that it is a BIG gun and should be used only when the infection is severe, bugs get a resistance to medication. Another fantastic medication for respiratory problems and it is probably a bigger gun than Tylan is a product called BORGAL it is an injectable and is mixed 5 or 6 cc to a gallon of water, it is a synthetic and is so very very effective.

Blah, what I thought should be a very simple discussion has turned out to be very convaluted and mixed down right up. I love discussions, I really do and I am hearing some wild and most wonderful information. It is all helping for me to get a better understanding of what we are up against. I am sure that others are gleaning information and getting good understanding of something that appears to be not so simple.

I will be treating with Safeguard, I can obtain that. But here is where so much confusion now lies. This is in regard to what in the dickens should one be looking for when they are looking for a drug. There is confusion in my mind about the different names for things.

I see that Safeguard is called two things....panacur and fenbendazol. Which is which, is it panacur or is it fenbendazol.....which should I be using?

Then there is the ivomec. Someone referred to it as ivermectin. What is the drug to use, there obviously is injectable and non-injectable....What is the product name that I should be looking for?

I really wish that products didn't go by so many names. That confuses me and causes me to not remember what I am supposed to be doing. Now does that make any sense to anyone? Probably not, and well, now that I think about it....it doesn't make much sense to me either. So now really confused....

I live in B.C.

Perhaps the medications go by different names in different provinces of our country, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

Safeguard, that is what I will use for now. When I am told things, I need CLEAR as the day can be when that sun shines with no clouds. I cannot have any mixed instructions, those confuse me.

So Safegaurd it is (still unsure about when fuzzylittlefriend said panacur, thought it was fenbendazole).

What I need to do, when I am all said and done is actually get off my butt and do some research myself (more of it) so I have a better understanding of the active ingredients of some products. How they work, the different names that they go by. How can one keep all these informations straight anyways? I surely can't, sigh....oh well, one day, one fine day.

I will treat all the flocks with Safeguard for three days, as indicated (thank you to contributors by the way).

My understanding now is that the treatment will rid of the worm eggs.

My understanding now is that the worms in the throat suck the hemolymph of the bird, thus ingesting the medication in that manner.

My understanding is that there are several different medications, some will kill all worms and mites and lice and gapeworms, included (but not tapeworm, now that is another story that should be spoken about, but another time), some will kill all worms and mites and lice excluding gapeworm. To this last sentence....why would one, if they had the option, not chose a product that kills ALL worms (except tapeworm, a different medication for that), including gapeworm, instead of one that won't abolish gapeworm. It clearly is a clear and present danger that not enough of us know about. Don't want to start a horror about gapeworm, but I really don't think enough people know how severe that I am hearing this can be, if the birds get it (and sounds like it is pretty common, more common than I ever would have thought). Worms, snails, blue bottle flies, amongst others are some of the hosts of this dreadful thing, and we all have worms, earthworms I speak of, around, and chickens love them!!

Ramblin', but a necessary thing. I had more comments, but can't recall what the threads said, time to copy my text, go back to the comments, read them, and then paste the comments back into the box, cause every time I go back a page to read posts, seems the text goes somewhere and I have to retype, learned a leasson. Control A to copy all the text, control S to save it to the clipboard and when I have that blank message screen, control V to insert my text that is saved and not lost, smiling that big smile.....phew, lucky I did copy the text, there was again that blank message box, my typing was saved!!

So Hidden I am wondering why you said that Safeguard is only for internal parasites, Pops Coops, you said your vet indicated that Safeguard would kill internal and external. Who is right? I need to know.

Tylan, the big gun. Yes, I have that on hand too and some long time ago I had a bad respiratory issue with my muscovy drake. Some chickens were near an open window (back in my old life) that I had forgotten to close on a hot autumn day. The chickens got a very bad cold. They recovered on their own, but the muscovy drake got it bad. He got so sick that he actually began to moult, he gurgled and gurgled and gurgled. I invested in tylan and gave him a dose for three days. I could not believe how that drake recovered, even after the first day of dosing. It was remarkable, he was a very sick fellow. It works for many things and works well.

My last resort would be to use tylan, but an extreme last resort, that is not my choice, I like birds with high immunity, but sometimes there is action required. If the gapeworm meds don't work, I will still leave him for awhile. If he digresses I might help him, I might not, just not sure about my action in the future. Thank you for all the comments, it is interesting to read. And..go and have a beautiful day, CynthiaM.



ivermectin
ivomec
safeguard
panacur
fenbendazol

Ivermectin and Ivomec are the same drug, Safeguard Panacure and Fenbendazol are the same, I have never understood why drug comopanies do what they do, hope this does not send your head spinning but on another note for very severe respitory infections there is a product called Tryvetran you need a script for this one and it is about 100.00 a bottle, BUT the same company makes exacly the same product under the name Borgal and it does not need a script and it is 20.00 a bottle. go figure,

Fenbendazole (Hoechst brand names Panacur and Safe-Guard, Intervet Panacur and Panacur Rabbit) is a broad spectrum benzimidazole anthelmintic used against gastrointestinal parasites including roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, the taenia species of tapeworms, pinworms, aelurostrongylus, paragonimiasis, strongyles and strongyloides and can be administered to sheep, cattle, horses, fish, dogs, cats, rabbits and seals. Drug interactions may occur if using bromsalan flukicides such as dibromsalan and tribromsalan. Abortions in cattle and death in sheep have been reported after using these medications together

pops coops wrote:very severe respitory infections there is a product called Tryvetran you need a script for this one and it is about 100.00 a bottle, BUT the same company makes exacly the same product under the name Borgal and it does not need a script and it is 20.00 a bottle. go figure,

Fenbendazole (Hoechst brand names Panacur and Safe-Guard, Intervet Panacur and Panacur Rabbit) is a broad spectrum benzimidazole anthelmintic used against gastrointestinal parasites including roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, the taenia species of tapeworms, pinworms, aelurostrongylus, paragonimiasis, strongyles and strongyloides and can be administered to sheep, cattle, horses, fish, dogs, cats, rabbits and seals. Drug interactions may occur if using bromsalan flukicides such as dibromsalan and tribromsalan. Abortions in cattle and death in sheep have been reported after using these medications together

Nope, no head spinning, (picture that gross horror show, exorcist), and green vomit, smiling.

The product tryvetran and borgal, one tenth the cost of the more expensive one, reminds me alot of glyphospate and roundup, almost the same idea, pretty much same product, different name, different price.

What is making my head spin in the last paragraph in your post....what species of tapeworms affect poultry? Guess I could look that up, hold on....nope, didn't get the name, but look what I did find.....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In this article they speak of tapeworms in chickens. Guess what the drug that is effective. You'll never guess, read the part on tapeworms.....fenbendazole....

So, darn. I spent over a $100 on a bottle of Valbazen to treat my birds for tapeworm. I never did get around to it because I had to put medication down each throat of the bird, and I could never figure out if I could do it safely. I was always too worried about getting the liquid down the windpipe (is it called trachea, not sure) and drowning the poor thing. Like I said, that is a discussion for another thread, another time. I need to find out how to feel comfortable with putting meds down a chicken's throat one day. Anyways.

So it looks like Safe-Guard will treat for tapeworms too, that is good, did you know that? Anyways, so much information, I am gleaning, I am listening, I am learning. I learn well when discussions take place, so bring it on!! Have a beautiful and wonderful day, CynthiaM, who listens well......

Still looking for the name of the poultry tapeworm to help with the discussion.....

When I was reading this article that I linked us to in my last post, I was interested to read about the prevention of gapeworm, it follows. But I am not sure how good this is, as it indicates to worm frequently. Comments on the following would be good information to ponder. CynthiaM.


"Gapeworms are best prevented by administering a wormer at fifteen to thirty day intervals or including a drug at low levels continuously beginning fifteen days after birds are placed in the infected pens. One drug that is effective for eliminating gapeworms is fenbendazole, however, its use is not presently approved for use in birds by the Food and Drug Administration."

THIS SHOULD HELP EVERYONE Please read and scroll down to find the worm of choice.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Cynthia from my knowledge (now remember it is a bit foggy havent worked in my industry now for almost 9 years) any medications given orally only do internal paracites. The medications given under the skin, or poured on get absorbed into the blood stream and will do internal and external paracites.
With me getting into sheep I am learning more and more, the rotation of medications is the key so the paracites do not get immune to one. So we do Valbenzen in the fall, prior to breeding (it can cause abortions in pregnant sheep so need to avoid it when they might be bred), then we we the ivermectin (Ivomec) in the spring to get rid of the external paracites prior to lambing, it also does the internal ones and helps to keep everyone cleaned out prior to lambs and therefore limiting their exposure to worms too early on.
So it might be a good idea to deworm your birds with Safeguard now, get rid of the worms, and the gape worm if they have it, then do another dose of Valbenzen in the spring. I know they are not going to get exposed to many worms over winter but would be a good safety precaution.
I generally do Eprinex in the fall prior to houseing everyone together, will deworm the common worms and gets rid of the bugs if they have any prior to the mass housing situations which seems to breed more bugs...